OOC Chat

[SWSF Hoppus]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I personally would not be interested in a Vong-era sim. I never had interest beyond Thrawn. I'd prefer a next chapter to build from where we are, maybe going off in our own parallel SW universe rather than picking up the story from the canon material.

[Ramano]

Yeah, that kind of really sucks as the next chapter is supposed to basically be the Vong invasion and everyone gets free reign of the tech. And we need at least the 4 people to make a game out of it...

[Dementat]

Not looking for Vong either. We still have the eras of Thrawn, Black Fleet, Corellia.... Hell, we even skipped the Sri-Ruuvi, which would make for a good flashpoint right now.

Hop, I wouldn't have fielded 2 VSD-II if it weren't for Ramano's fleet. I was perfectly happy with 1 and a pair of Strike Cruisers. I was actually hoping to see enough turnaround that people would be forced to use cheaper, smaller ships. Hmm... this could happen yet.

[Ramano]

Ruuvi are godmode as shit. Not even part of canon SW, fan fiction and nothing more. (Personal opinion, but backed up by fact.) And I was under the impression we were skipping all that because its just more of the same. No significant technological upgrades, no great shift in the scope of the galaxy, just more of what we are doing right now. I dont see what the point would be to just restarting, which is what that would be?

Also, I take offense to being told my fleet is not Nostalgic, im using old republic tech, lmao! Would you feel better if I took 3 RHD's and a QFBC?

[SWSF Hoppus]

We need to think creatively on specs for the next round or even for this round I think. It's difficult. The formula Hale uses has been worked over a few times and its as close to money/value that any sim has been. At least it is a template that's used and we're not just eye-balling units, ya know.

It can't just be cost that limits players, b/c eventually money is found. Ships have to be worthwhile on the battlefield.

I think we need to use the same creativity we've demonstrated in other parts of the game in fleet/building. Right now its the same as ever - save money build the most effective ships and use them. Or by adding in another level of hero specialization.

By winning battles or even losing battles you earn TACTICAL POINTS.
With TACTICAL POINTS you can purchase HERO MODIFIERS (up to 3 per hero can be active).
An example Hero Modifier = Dreadnaught Master - Dreds do *X more damage and get +1 UCR. Wing Commander - For fleets with less than 6 squadrons, add an additional 3 squadrons as a bonus. Raid Force - no ships over 500m, less than X SF Squads and get a 40% damage bonus, +1 UCR rating for that force.

I dont know, just throwing things at the wall but you get the idea. There are ways we can get creative here. I think the trick is not building a pyramid shaped system of benefits - you get more money and get better and better. Instead you get more money/points and get more options, each not different but not necessarily better or worse.

Or find a way to tweak the formula so that the most powerful ships are more expensive. etc etc I dont know. We also need to figure out a way to encourage engagement, to make battling essential to advancing.

[Dementat]

Now this Tactical Point idea is definitely from outside the box. I think it has a lot of potential. Make less popular technology more appealing through bonus', thus diversifying the battlefield. An interesting idea.

I have issue with the current hero tree anyways, as you can stack (i.e. General AND Admiral) when it should branch out and keep you to that specific ability.

Good job, Hop.

[SWSF Hale]

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!

I definitely hear you guys and have my own personal observations and concerns about GCW which I have made myself which are along the same lines. As everyone could imagine, I'm a little bit more sensitive to the overall enjoyability of our game since I'm the one who launched Episode II.

The bottom line is, GCW Episode II is entirely playable and enjoyable as is in its current format...so I don't necessarily think the game is broken, but at the same time there are several reasons why the game hasn't really excelled:

1. The number of total players really limits the amount of PvP we've seen thus far. Imagine if Erasmar and GallPizi were active. The inner rim, core worlds, and northern outer rim would be an entirely different landscape right now, and there would be a lot of PvP friction. This tends to happen with every single game on this forum anyhow, so I'm not entirely surprised. The question is, where do we go from here knowing that only 3~4, and hopefully an active 5th player might be involved?

2. I like the Heroic Units and the idea of the player being an actual unit, but I think this can be improved upon. Honestly, I wouldn't mind bringing in something closer to the SWSF Legends we had going a while back. If simplified and tweaked for interstellar combat as opposed to a D&D style game, then I'm sure that would be awesome.

3. While Missions give incentives to expand, I think we'd see more expansion and friction if we didn't rely so much on facilities for income and instead on systems themselves. This has something Hop has brought to my attention.

4. A single player fleet isn't enough to break a Stronghold or even a slightly less defended system. I think the Command Point system works, but clearly we need more units on the table, not to the extent that at the beginning of the game I could launch an immediate attack at Mon Calamari and blow it up... but perhaps something on the order of 30 Command Points and no bonus units would be more favorable.

5. I'm sure some players feel a little "stuck" playing their faction. I know I do. I was leaning towards the Trade Federation at first but went Imperial Remnant simply for balancing purposes. What I liked about the AE Reboot on this Forum a couple years back was the "name and claim your own faction, stronghold, and technology" idea. I think that would be really cool in GCW.

Other comments I have: I really like the current timeline and technology, as well as the political landscape of the After Endor universe. So what I propose is this... let's keep playing Episode II for now. Hop and I will hit the drawing boards and we'll see if we can't create a "GCW: After Endor" game system based on everyone's concerns and observations. Swell?

[SWSF Hoppus]

Sounds good to me.

And I WILL be posting at Eriadu today for those concerned where my fleet my disappear to in HS

[Ramano]

I disagree, after what was just shown me at Eriadu, I could most certainly solo a stronghold planet. Let me finish up at Eriadu and I will demonstrate at Mustafar.

And I dont know, to me it just seems like if we are going to change a bunch of stuff up, we need to go ahead and just advance the chapter. It really seems like everyone wants to play, they just dont like the current storyline behind the galaxy, which I mean, if we are doing starwars, theres not really much that can be changed.

As far as raising CP limits, your just adding math at that point. Adding more ships will not change the scale of combat, it will simply add more to each attack post. The problem we have is only having 4 players, but we knew that before we even started the game. Everyone just got spoiled when they saw 8 people try to join the game at the start, which I tried to tell you once we got playing that wouldnt be the case. Era and Gall flat out disappeared, Eid never had any intention of playing and Sherm never even made a starting post. And bitch as you might Dem, only 1 of those can even from a certain point of view be blamed on me, and thats just convoluted as he only joined to make me miserable in the first place.

So my 2 cents worth on the matter, either leave things as is, or lets advance the chapter.

And for the record, this game is already much closer to an RTS then I would have liked to begin with, anymore swing in that direction and unfortunately, im just not interested. I joined for a D&D-like RPG, if I want to play an RTS i'll go put in StarCraft. No offense.

Edit: And back on the raising CP limits, do remember, that raises my CP limit as well. Your making comments now as to how over powered my fleet is, you really want to allow me another dreadnaught to that mix?

Edit Edit: Also, my fleet is so powerful because I understand something none of the rest of you seem to not be able to catch onto. Those big giant ships with all the firepower are worthless. Why do you think my only ship with a 1 move is a carrier. I dont have to get it near you, its power comes from its support craft. That and im absolutely preying on you with your thinking that the poultry 350KC an action day my m/RHD costs me is actually slowing me down. Pound for Pound thats the most powerful ship in the game (thank you btw Hale) and none of you will even think about targeting it cause, well it costs 350KC every pay day. Yeah, my fighter/shuttle cloud is expensive to replace, but I am more then set up to keep rebuilding it. And it takes me 1 day to rebuild vs taking you a week if not longer. Reassess your tactics then come back to this discussion later.

Edit Edit Edit: And for the record, if there are any complaints about my flagship, I didnt design it and have the messages to prove it. Hale tossed it out as an idea to me, I jumped all over it, so yell at him before saying its more of the "Ramano-ism" to kill the game.

[SWSF Hoppus]

No one has any problem with your ship, Ramano.

And no one has any problem with the storyline. To the contrary, every one of us other 3 love this period in Star Wars, we DONT want to go to Vong timeline.. so not sure where you are coming from there.

There is a sweet spot with CP/fleet size. We have to make sure planetary defenses are in line with the fleet. I personally believe that most worlds should have pretty minimal defesnes, and defending a world will ALWAYS require a player fleet to respond. Otherwise you get the problems Hale mentions of it being difficult to take a planet + PDF fleet + Player fleet. If you want to hold on to worlds, you have to have units to respond. This has always been a problem. Force players to make fleets that can be split up and used for defense as well as attack .Give me 30 or more CP TOTAL, and no PDF fleets. Very minimal defenses - maybe a few SF squads, a gunship or two. On the major worlds the defenses will be more substantial but most planets should be next to nothing. IMO this alone would up the level of engagement.

Also Hale isn't talking about going all D&D. I think just having selectable 'abilities' would be enough - you can use your earned points/monies to purchase modifiers that give your character certain bonuses for combat with your fleet or ground forces - like in my example, a bonus for any Dread's you command, or for X-Wing squadrons under your command, or for certain fleet types, etc etc. No one is talking about rolling dice and shit. I also dont want to complicate that too much. In my mind, i just see these bonus modifiers with conditions, like playing cards, that you can buy and swap out, only allowed to use X at any given time and once you replace it you lose it forever and have to buy it again later. Something that you might find useful for certain missions, etc. These could even involve expanding CP points until you suffer a defeat, and after taht hostile action is finished (all units out of danger), the card expires, etc.. Could be cool and throws in a variable.

I am happy to go on as now but I think there are some obvious things we could do to enhance gameplay and starting Chapter III isnt a bad idea.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Ram how did u make income from eriadu?

[Ramano]

Conquest mission.

As far as vong, I just throw it out there cause that pretty much thats what tech era Hale was talking about. If we are running that timeline for tech, why wouldnt we have the vong invasion as the back drop for it? Seemed pretty common sense to me.

[SWSF Hoppus]

duuhhhhh he says  8)

[Ramano]

I was expecting Dem to stick around in which you'd have gotten paid too, but he took off so we'll get you in on the ground invasion and you can get paid too. =)

By rights I was expecting this battle to be way uglier, I just sorrily under-estimated how vulnerable ships are to undefended fighter attacks.

[Ramano]

Also Hale, we have a list of questions adding up that havnt been addressed yet due to distraction and IRL.

1: Can 2 Hero's operate out of the same character, kind of like a split personality disorder?

2: Can PDF withdraw from a battle?

3: If 2 or more players work together for the same conquest mission, how do payment rewards work?

4: Do multiple hero's allow multiple hero bonus's. For example if I have 2 hero's on the same fleet, do I get all associated bonus's of both heros. IE: Added ships, extra shield/hull/damage, double KC bonus's where applicable?

5: Where exactly is chapter 3 supposed to take place in the timeline?