SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR

[SWSF Hale]

BTDubs...... these were the parameters for the mock in case you missed them (cuz it looks like your SFs and support units are way over budget).

The title of this Mock Flashpoint will be King of the Hill:

1. Apply all Hero Bonuses.
2. Battle Fleet of 23 Command Points.
3. Players will get a Starfighter Upgrade Cash Bonus of (# of Squads per ship in Fleet) x 70 KCs in order to use towards better fighters; AND an Auxiliary Upgrade Cash Bonus of (# of AUX per ship in Fleet) x 40 KCs towards new AUX; and a Ground Assault Vehicle Bonus of (# of GAVs in Fleet) x 10 KCs; and a final Infantry Upgrade Bonus of (# of Squads in Fleet) x 1 KC.
4. The winner will be determined based on the total amount of damage in COST of everything he destroyed subtracted by the COST of everything lost. If a ship enters hyperspace in order to escape, half of its cost will be subtracted from the player's total at the end. (Stock units are evaluated at 0 KCs).
5. This mock will open on 00:01:00, 22 June 2012 and close on 00:01:00, 29 June 2012. Upon the closing time, all damages will be assessed up until that point and the King of the Hill will be chosen.
6. The Mock System will have (1) Gamma-class Space Defense Platform in each A-ring space. You can blow these up for some bonus damage, but if you attack one it will attack you back in the same post (simply calculate all damages then). These gammas will have no onboard units.
7. Players are encouraged to land ground troops on the planet and slug it out for extra damage!

GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING!!!

[SWSF Hoppus]

BTDubs...... these were the parameters for the mock in case you missed them (cuz it looks like your SFs and support units are way over budget).

The title of this Mock Flashpoint will be King of the Hill:

1. Apply all Hero Bonuses.
2. Battle Fleet of 23 Command Points.
3. Players will get a Starfighter Upgrade Cash Bonus of (# of Squads per ship in Fleet) x 70 KCs in order to use towards better fighters; AND an Auxiliary Upgrade Cash Bonus of (# of AUX per ship in Fleet) x 40 KCs towards new AUX; and a Ground Assault Vehicle Bonus of (# of GAVs in Fleet) x 10 KCs; and a final Infantry Upgrade Bonus of (# of Squads in Fleet) x 1 KC.
4. The winner will be determined based on the total amount of damage in COST of everything he destroyed subtracted by the COST of everything lost. If a ship enters hyperspace in order to escape, half of its cost will be subtracted from the player's total at the end. (Stock units are evaluated at 0 KCs).
5. This mock will open on 00:01:00, 22 June 2012 and close on 00:01:00, 29 June 2012. Upon the closing time, all damages will be assessed up until that point and the King of the Hill will be chosen.
6. The Mock System will have (1) Gamma-class Space Defense Platform in each A-ring space. You can blow these up for some bonus damage, but if you attack one it will attack you back in the same post (simply calculate all damages then). These gammas will have no onboard units.
7. Players are encouraged to land ground troops on the planet and slug it out for extra damage!

GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY HUNTING!!!

You talkin' to me? I did the math... bought what I could...

[Dementat]

Order of Battle at this time: Me, Hale, Ramano, Hop

Commander Parrault's Brigade

Three fleets and counting were now in the system. Cammander Parrault ordered scanning of the surface and had the fleet move away from one of the more nasty new arrivals.

Summary:
Moved from B-8 to B-6.
Active Ground Scanning.

Starfighter Group
    Location: B-6    Action: CSP    Armor: 1992/1992
TIE Fighter Squadron RH-001
TIE Fighter Squadron LH-001
TIE Advanced Squadron RH-002
TIE Advanced Squadron LH-002
TIE Avenger Squadron RH-003
Elite TIE Interceptor Squadron LH-003

Auxiliary Group
Lambda-class Assault Shuttles (16)
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20 each    Shields: 20/20 each
Gamma-class Assault Shuttles (32)
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 30/30 each    Shields: 30/30 each

Capital Ships
**Victory Star Destroyer Mk-II Right Hand**
Location: B-6    Heading: B-5
Shields: 1100/1100    Armor: 1100/1100    Hull: 900/900    Systems: 500/500
Troops: 25 ARC Trooper Squads    150 Stormtroopers Squads    350 Fleet Trooper Squads
GAVs: 15 AT-ST    15 Speeder Bikes

Victory Star Destroyer Mk-II Left Hand
Location: B-6    Heading: B-5
Shields: 1000/1000    Armor: 1000/1000    Hull: 900/900    Systems: 500/500
Troops: 25 ARC Trooper Squads    150 Stormtroopers Squads    350 Fleet Trooper Squads
GAVs: 15 AT-ST    15 Speeder Bikes

Charger Consular Cruiser Throbbing Cod
Location: B-6    Heading: B-5
Shields: 115/115    Armor: 115/115    Hull: 60/60    Systems: 60/60

[Ramano]

Well technically there isnt any order of battle anymore, there is just a 24hr posting cycle. Also, as the "Extended Suck" ending for Mass Effect 3 just launched my activity will slide a little for the next 2 or 3 days. Ill still post for the mock, but basically unless someone is coming into the planet to get some, im just gunna wait until 12:50am on the 29th, slide out from the atmosphere and light someone up for a quick win lol.

[SWSF Hale]

<> ISD-II AVENGER  <>
Flagship of the 1st Imperial Expeditionary Force
Ultor Imperium | Avenger of the Empire
Commanding Officer: COMMODORE Lucidius Hale

   Hale's feet were getting a little cramped from all the standing he wasn't used to. On the bridge of a Star Destroyer, there was no command chair or anything like that, just a crew pit and walkways. This made it easy for the commanding officer to supervise everyone and have immediate access to the officers he needed to speak to, so there was some value to it - but Hale still preferred the smaller "command cockpit" style bridge that was common in just about every other capital ship. Perhaps it was time to take a break.

   "Helm, turn starboard 10 degrees rudder, steady course 350 mark 075, mark waypoint Sector B-2, then turn port 10 degrees and steady course 290 Mark 029, mark waypoint and hold position in Sector A-1," ordered Hale. "Lieutenant Winston, once we arrive at the second waypoint, commence Active Scanning of the Ground - if those Rebels think they can hide from us they are mistaken. We shall trample them beneath our feet."

   "Aye-aye, commodore," replied Winston.

   "Commander Kraken, I'm going to the flight deck to inspect the troops, you have the deck and the con," ordered Hale.

   "Very well sir, I relieve you," replied Kraken, who then announced his Officer of the Deck status to the rest of the bridge, "Commander Kraken has the deck and the con."

Action Summary
1. Moved from B-3 to B-2 to A-1.
2. Commenced Active GROUND Scanning.
   > Attention Ramano: Please post locations of your landed units.

<> ISD-II Avenger
Onboard Hero: Imperial Officer [Commodore] Lucidius Hale
Location: B-3 | Status: Scanning | UCR: 3 | Shields: 1980/1980 | Armor: 1980/1980 | Hull: 1760/1760 | Systems: 990/990

>> Elite TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 1
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 360/360

>> TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 2
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 240/240

>> TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 3
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 240/240

>> TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 4
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 240/240

>> TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 5
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 240/240

>> TIE Interceptor Squadron Black Knight 6
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 240/240

>> Gamma Assault Shuttle Kappa 1 ~ 24
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 4 | Shields: 30/30 | Armor: 30/30 (each)

>> Lambda Shuttle Upsilon 1 ~ 12
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 4 | Shields: 20/20 | Armor: 20/20 (each)

>> Imperial Landing Barge Omicron 1~15
Location: Hangar | Status: Loaded | UCR: 1 | Shields: 100/100 | Armor: 100/100
--> Onboard Infantry: 1000/1000 Imperial Fleet Trooper Squads | 400/400
--> Imperial Stormtrooper Squads | 70/70 Imperial ARC Squads Onboard
--> Vehicles: 45/45 AT-ST Walkers | 45/45 Speeder Bikes

>> Imperial Royal Guard Crimson Guard 1 & 2
Location: Command Deck | Status: Standing Guard | UCR: 12 | Armor: 160 (each)

>> Viper Probe Droid Theta 1~10
Location: Hangar | Status: --- | UCR: 10 | Armor: 20/20 (each)

[Ramano]

I got nothing landed, all ground units are still in my hangers. Im just hovering here at the ground waiting to see if anyone wants to come and play in the Z-95s territory. =) And uhh, no, you cant orbitally bombard my cap ships. As for CSP, I got 3 Z-95s and 10 Lambdas, and no you cant orbitally bomb them either. Ships can move, and your targeting scanners arnt accurate through atmosphere (think flashlight through a glass of water, your shots will be off). So if you shoot at me, I will have to get matrix on you and dodge that shit like Neo, hehehe.

And yes I know I could have posted already, its a tactical ploy to reset my timer to a more "optimal" time of day, so by all means, dont wait on me.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Hm, based on rules this is my reading of the scenario:


1) You are on surface, you are hovering above it, you still need to post which G space you are in (g1, g2 g3, g4) otherwise you are in atmosphere which is another grid space all together.

2) See this rule first:

Airborne Units on the Ground Grid
When transitioning to the surface all airborne units receive a -1 UCR (stacked on any previous modifiers). Terrain modifiers do not effect Airborne units. When on the surface, airborne units can be targeted by troops and vehicles. Airborne units receive a x10 bonus to damage tolerance and weapon damages on the surface. When leaving the surface, adjust accordingly.

If you are on surface, floating or not, you can be bombarded by SDs, Mon Cals, and Dauntless cruisers per rules, just like "moving" vehicles can be targeted. HOWEVER, since you are on surface, your damage tolerance is x10 (so if your shields are 1,000, they are 10,000 on surface) - while there is NO MODIFIER on bombardment (so if an ISD shoots 500 damage at you from orbit, your shields are 9,500 not 500, and if you were to move to atmosphere would be 950/1000 as you would return to the normal levels as you are not on surface). This also means that your weaponry is x10 powerful vs other surface targets, but you cant fire into atmosphere/orbit form surface.

[Ramano]

Uhh... Hale didnt we discuss that rule was a goner, that damage was damage no matter what was doing it or where it occured? And if you look in the revised rules section the no bombardment against flying units thing is in there. Hale said the main rules section wasnt updated yet and to use the updated rules for chapter 2 thread for the mock.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Well if there has been non-published decisions, then I can't speak to those. Regardless, you still need to post a G grid space that you are in when scanned. You can't exist in the netherworld between grid spaces, right?

<clip clip the part about damages>

[SWSF Hale]

Ramano, we can discuss my bombardment limitations later, but the question still remains: If you're on the Ground, we need to know your location if you are landed, either G-1,2,3, or 4. If you're "just hovering around", then please specify which G-grid you're hovering around over. If you're "just hovering around" over "no G-grid space in particular" then that's what the Atmosphere is. =) So pick one or the other, but post an *actual* location.

Now for bombardment. The idea of orbital bombardment is that it was more of an area attack rather than a targeted strike, but as we discussed, in order to make the mechanics of this game work we have to let bombardment-capable ships be able to specifically target things on the ground such as enemy units and facilities. If you're "landed" on the ground or "just hovering", I have to be able to shoot at you with respect to the same game mechanic, otherwise we start evoking exceptions to rules which is something I've always despised.

Remember our "Original Intent":

Our continuing goal and intent with GCW is to provide clear, simple, and universal rules with easy-to-follow gaming mechanics that make gameplay both easy, exciting, and encouraging for multiple players to join in and game each other.

I agreed with your argument that it would be difficult to shoot at capital ships in the atmosphere from the A-Ring, not only due to parallax error from the shooter's vantage, but also because of the space-to-air medium change regarding the physics aspect of it... but Orbital Bombardment is a different matter. If I'm in A-1, I can shoot at G-1; A-2 can shoot at G-2, and so on. If I can shoot at other ground units, then I should also be able to shoot at "landed" or "hovering" capital ships just the same.

[Dementat]

I agree with Hale. If you are "hovering," then you are in the atmosphere. If you are "landed," you are on the ground. We've never talked about flight ceilings, but this was my understanding.

[SWSF Hoppus]

I think we should get rid of atmosphere and leave SPACE & GROUND (which includes airspace over it). You have to go to space to move to another Ground Grid space instead of to the atmosphere (like moving continents).

As for operation/combat on the SURFACE/GROUND...

From the GROUND RULES (bold for emphasis):

How UCR Works for Ground
As the UCR applies for all units and to all weapons, ground combat is as simple as space combat.  When one unit (Cap Ship/AUX/SF Squad/Vehicle/Troop Squad) attacks another unit, it may fire any or all of its weapons upon it*. UCR will determine the outcome (how much damage was dealt).  When on the surface grid, all units have a weapon range of 0 (same grid). Movement between grid spaces is not allowed, airborne units must re-enter atmosphere to move to another Ground Grid Space.  Units destroyed may enjoy a final round of 'dying breath' actions (move, deploy units, fire weapons) before blowing up.

Basically that says on surface, your units fight each other like they would if they were all space-units in B6 or A2. Simple.

As for bombardment, I think to keep it simple the ships should be able to target anything on the surface using the UCR as normal. Facilities would be 1 as would would anything "landed". Maybe the bombarding ship has a penalty that its UCR is considered 1 when firing on surface, thus making targeting moving stuff really hard, but static stuff would be 100% accurate.

So Some examples:
ISD in A1 fires 60 HTLB (900) @ T-47s in G1 - 900 * 1 UCR/8 UCR = 113 DMG to T-47s
ISD in A1 fires 60 HTLB (900) @ Venerator in G1 - 900 * 1 UCR/3 UCR = 300 DMG to Venerator
ISD in A1 fires 60 HTLB (900) @ Venerator in G1 on surface - 900 * 1 UCR /1 UCR = 900 DMG to Venerator

[SWSF Hale]

I like the functionality of the Atmosphere in my humble opinion because it sets a clear boundary between space and ground, and also allows ground units to transit from one G-grid to another via the Atmosphere to give an "intercontinental" element to ground combat.

That being said, I'm on the fence regarding removing it or not, or alternatively replacing it with an "Aerospace Zone" with different properties.

What I propose: Partition the Atmosphere into 4 separate zones above the Ground AND give these zones an "Aerospace" quality... Here's how it would impact the game:

1. The Atmosphere and Ground become "one" meta-zone, which means you can move between the two areas freely (players just need to specify which part of the zone they're in).
2. Starfighters/AUX can still be placed on Combat Atmosphere Patrol, only this time instead of seemingly patrolling the whole planet, they patrol a continental region (more realistic).
3. Starfighters/AUX on Bombing Runs must be in the same Atmospheric zone to bomb its related Ground zone.
4. Starships that are atmospheric capable can "pass through" the Atmosphere and land immediately on the Ground when moving from the A-Ring, or they can "loiter" in the Atmosphere.
4. Orbital Bombardment is done from the A-Ring and shots hit the related Ground zone. If attacking Infantry and GAVs, the shooter takes a -1 UCR penalty to simulate the area dispersal of the weapons fire. Facilities are stationary objects and as such can be specifically targeted (no UCR penalty).
5. Ships in the A-Ring can attack other ships in the adjacent Atmosphere zone, only with a -1 UCR penalty due to parallax targeting errors and turbolaser physics.
6. Ships that are Atmospheric and Bombardment capable (VSD and VNSD) can do "Atmospheric Bombardment" and take no UCR penalty from their attacks.

This is my "fair and balanced compromise" that keeps it simple. Any takers?

[Ramano]

Well wait a minute here, I thought we already had a working set of rules? We had 2 mocks to test that they worked, why are we changing a bunch of stuff now? I mean if something is broken, cool, lets work that out, but this looks more like "well I dont like how this works so lets change it". When you sit down to play monopoly do you get to just change the rules because you dont like them? (Ill have to remember that for the next time my kids force me to play it lmao!)

As far as the bombardment, we had this discussion on the OOC boards already. It was stated that ships could not be targeted by orbital bombardment because they can move. You go to shoot the area and the ship moves out of the way, as would happen. (Unless you got one hell of a stupid commander) The way bombardment works is your targeting an area not a specific target, and if your firing with enough concentraited effect to hit a single ship, thats a very narrow range of fire, which would be easily out-manuvered. I mean yes, in reality a stray shot or 2 would hit them, but for game simplicity we wernt trying to figure fractions for damage on a bombardment, so we made it no targeting vessels.

Furthermore, the last time I walked into a game and just started throwing things around for rule changes I was promptly removed from the game, so why all of a sudden is it ok for every one else now. I mean seriously, the rules are set and not really open for discussion. If you find a broken mechanic cool, let Hale know and he will get it fixed, and if it requires a discussion, he'll post a topic in the OOC threads. But if you simply just dont like a rule, well, and im not trying to be offensive here but I dont know any other way to say this other then, sorry but deal with it? I guess if it bothers you THAT bad you dont have to play, I would hope that would not be an option but I just dont see why we are re-opening discussions on things that have already been discussed, noted, and closed? I admit its partially my fault as I was unaware hale hadn't updated the rules when I invited everyone to the mock, but he did say to use the quick facts thread and not the rule thread, multiple times, as it was not yet updated. But yeah, the rules are not really open for discussion, we are just simply looking for broken mechanics.

[shermy530]

Don't miss these convos...