OOC Chat

[Dementat]

I can flip that argument using the same website you sighted! Switzerland, for example, had a privately owned firearm in nearly half of its households and yet has fewer homicides by firearm than most U.S. cities. The statistics work both ways.

[Ramano]

True Dem, but you fail to add one key number into your equation. That is, how stupid people in the USA are compared to people from switzerland. In switzerland you dont have to actually tell people you cant be like Wiley Coyote and strap a rocket to your ass and fly down the side of a mountain. Here on the other hand, people are dumb, and so long as you have to tell them you cant be like a cartoon, they cant own fire-arms either. If you have no common sense, you have no ability to safely own a gun.

Edit: And for the record syren, lets look at it. Would you have even been considered for that interview had it not been for the benefits you received while still attached to your parents? Keep in mind, in a poor family you cant afford school to get a degree to get the entry level position. In that situation you'd be a dock working nobody like everyone else, with no hope, and dreams shattered by a busted system that dont give a shit.

Now, dont get me wrong, im not saying you should apologize for being born into a wealthy family, far from it. You just get to be one of the lucky few that doesnt have to deal with life the way the rest of us do. However, the difference is, I do know what its like to be in your position, but you on the other hand, have no clue what its like to be on the other side of the tracks, which is exactly the problem. Having no frame of reference for what its like to live like that, how could you ever have sympathy for anyone else who does? Not your fault, but true none-the-less. Always remember syren, I dont hate "you", I hate the system that created you.

Edit edit: That and its fun to pick on you because you bite back instead of just crying about it.

[SWSF Eidolon]

I can flip that argument using the same website you sighted! Switzerland, for example, had a privately owned firearm in nearly half of its households and yet has fewer homicides by firearm than most U.S. cities. The statistics work both ways.

Agreed but the point was the US is RIGHT UNDER that specific group of countries.  "We're not as bad as Mexico, Colombia or Brazil"  that's our current schoolyard defense.  I dare to guess that half of the guns used in the homicides in those countries were made in the US as well.

Like I say, I own guns as well and I'm not interested in giving them up.  But there's a problem in our country and availability is a major factor in it.  No one's going to take our guns away anyways though.  The attack on gun ownership is completely invented for partisan kindling.

[Ramano]

Ok so reading through the diplomacy rules, for the #3 milestone it says you have to fully replace the PDF, a few questions about this.

A) What happens to the current PDF. For example, Bakura has a Dreadnaught. I cant foresee this ship just disappearing into the air simply because the planet is under my protection. What about space installations?

B) Can we use the standing PDF in the system as part of the over-all PDF replacement?

C) Can we scrap the existing PDF/Installations if we are not allowed to keep them?

D) Unless of course your Storyline was dependent upon the protection aspect being the big selling point such as mine, why would you need to touch the PDF to begin with? Take Dantooine for example, say someone decided to take it diplomatically, what the hell would you need a 7 ship/23CP defense for 1000 people for? I mean, im sure those people would praise you like a god for the protection, but it seems a bit over-kill for such a low value world.

Edit: Sorry to change the topic but I assumed in-game questions would take priority over a debate on laws we have no power to change.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Ok so reading through the diplomacy rules, for the #3 milestone it says you have to fully replace the PDF, a few questions about this.

A) What happens to the current PDF. For example, Bakura has a Dreadnaught. I cant foresee this ship just disappearing into the air simply because the planet is under my protection. What about space installations?

B) Can we use the standing PDF in the system as part of the over-all PDF replacement?

C) Can we scrap the existing PDF/Installations if we are not allowed to keep them?

D) Unless of course your Storyline was dependent upon the protection aspect being the big selling point such as mine, why would you need to touch the PDF to begin with? Take Dantooine for example, say someone decided to take it diplomatically, what the hell would you need a 7 ship/23CP defense for 1000 people for? I mean, im sure those people would praise you like a god for the protection, but it seems a bit over-kill for such a low value world.

i probbed with a few similar questions, based on my understanding (per Hales answers), it pretty much all disappears and you have to replace it.  But you use CRVs, build 7 CRVs for free, and send them to the planet in question.  This fulfills the 23CPor7Ship PDF Fleet requisite.  Yes you lost the systems default defense fleet, but replacing it doesn't really cost you anything.  Facilities disappear per Milestone 4.  Only shit that remains is "Known Features".  but there lies the built in dynamic, you have to choose if you want to bring a planet to full membership of not.  You can just leave it at Milestone #2 and get the minimum bonus w/o having to invest anything else or lose the planets defenses.  Then if someone else tries to attack, it's still got it's own defenses, plus you got a relationship with it anyway/IC excuse to intervene

[Ramano]

We are allowed to do that?

[SWSF Eidolon]

We are allowed to do that?

From what I gather, Hale stated Diplomacy progress goes on "Pause" wherever you left off at when your Hero leaves, so whatever point you are at is where it stays until something happens about it.

Regarding the CRVs for Free for PDF Milestone Requisites, yes, thats why the Impys been makin and movin IPVs around.  Presumably

[SWSF Hoppus]

Yes we are allowed its part of the fun of this game - the idea of having facilities/investments on worlds without having full standing armies. They make nice targets for enemies and fun storylines for battles

[SWSF Eidolon]

Greg, for one, out of curiosity would it be possible to set up the Nav COmputer so that you had to input every system you were passing thru along way?  and that you COULDNT pass thru hostile systems along those routes so that you'd actually have HS blockade strategy n shit?

Just a thought.  I mean, IN THEORY, suppose I wanted to go to Bastion.  I shouldn't be able to go there straight thru dantooine.

[Dementat]

Keep in mind, in a poor family you cant afford school to get a degree to get the entry level position. In that situation you'd be a dock working nobody like everyone else, with no hope, and dreams shattered by a busted system that don't give a shit.

I take great exception to that remark. I am sick and tired of the self pity of people who don't create opportunities for themselves. My family is filled with rags-to-riches stories, as are many many others. Quit blaming "the system" for your inability to improve your situation. Victims and lemmings, I'm truly sick of this failure mentality in this country and the need to blame everyone else for their problems.

As for the PDF question:
Scrapping and Salvaging
Only units that were originally manufactured by the player can be scrapped by him, and the payout is 25% of its original cost. Salvaged units are any units that the player captured or discovered; the payout for these units is 50% of the original cost. Scrapping and Salvaging must be done at a system with a Shipyard or Factory, or with one of the following System Features: Salvage Yard, Heavy Industry, or Heavy Mining. Scrapping stock units do not pay anything.

[SWSF Hale]

Once again, everyone's personality can be seen in their characters and faction of choice...

Just sayin. =)

[Ramano]

First of all Dem, you live in California, the land of victims and lemmings and your gunna say that about us? The one place in the nation were you can actually sue a person cause they walked past your house on the sidewalk and you dont happen to like them. You know Dem, not every place in the USA is california, land of the no taxes and uncared about debt to be paid for by the rest of the nation. Perhaps if you people out there paid for yourselves once and a while the rest of us wouldnt have all the problems we do...

Edit: And before you start in on how wonderful cali is, do keep in mind the other 49 states have to pay a combined 300 BILLION $ a year to cover all the rich people in your state that dont have to pay taxes. And there is actually a petition online to remove california from the USA. Not going to happen I know, but perhaps you should look at your detachment from the rest of the country before you comment on us.

Edit Edit: Another little factoid I found, in wisconsin, we have less then a 50% college attendance rate. The simple fact of the matter, out here, people cant afford college. Keep in mind in my city, a good paying job is 9.50$/hour. Most jobs here only pay minimum wage, and walmart is the largest employer in the city. And our minimum wage is only 7.25$/hour, unlike your nice 14.75$/hour out in cali. So please, dont sit here telling me its my fault people around here cant go to college. Its your illustrious systems preventing people from getting ahead out here, the system you so support by being a law enforcement officer. But do remember, one day the poor will have nothing left to eat but the rich, then california becomes the worlds largest buffett, lmao.

Edit Edit Edit: And I think ill go ahead and call this debate now before it ends up mean. Its pointless as its 2 biased opinions about the same matter. Everything you say is going to be about how wonderful california is cause you live there, and everything im going to say is how horrible it is because in my opinion, the people of california are the embodiment of everything thats wrong with america. Not you as an individual, but the people in general, especially when you get down around the San Fran and Hollywood areas. So lets just agree that california is a special case and call it an argument.

[Dementat]

This may come as a surprise to you, but I absolutely hate California. This is what a state looks like when you have no conservatives. There are no checks or balances on power here. Our tax system is so bad and screwed up that thousands of businesses are leaving each year. California is what it looks like when ONLY the rich pay taxes. Our rich live here, but their businesses are in other states.

Welfare Offices in the nice cities like SF encourage recipients to relocate to the Central Valley, where the welfare check will go farther. Problem is there are no jobs in the Central Valley, so they never get off welfare.

Our politicians have learned to fund every pet project by mandate so that those budgets can not be cut, while the general fund is filled by teachers and public safety. We give sanctuary to illegal immigrants while our own people are out of work.

A college education is unnecessary, and not everyone should go to a university. I did, and I can tell you, it does nothing for you. I could have been just as successful by going to a Tech School. Oh, and I paid my own way into college. Still paying, almost 10 years later. My illegal alien counterparts, however, get their education paid by the taxpayer.

I support splitting California up into 2 or 3 states. No state should be worth more than 25 electoral votes.

If I didn't live 3 blocks from the ocean, I would leave this state in a heartbeat. Half my family is already relocating.

[Ramano]

Well if your looking for a cheap standard of living, you can come here, nice houses are selling for like 18,000$ right now. Theres a bi-level + basement, total 3800sqft with 2 car garage, 1/2 acre yard on a dead end so very little traffic going for 42,000$ today just down the street from me. Ok keeping in mind there is no work with in 200 miles in any direction and most of the city resembles a 3rd world nation (yes we even have a hobo tent city downtown under the bridge). Being a prison guard already though you could easily get a job at Rock Country Jail making like 40k$ a year. However, I believe all the guards walk around in full body armor as the jail is mostly just a transitional holding area for criminals on the way to Waupon MSP or CCCI in portage. (CCCI is the one where Jeffery Dahmer was killed at.) So yeah, cheap as dirt to live here, if you dont mind living in Somalia. And yes, with the weather we've had lately it even looks like somalia out there right now. We've picked up less then 1/10 of an inch of rain since March... im in wisconsin, its supposed to rain significantly more then that.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Once again, everyone's personality can be seen in their characters and faction of choice...

Just sayin. =)

  That's not true.  That's impossible!      because Greg twisted my arm to be NR ;p