OOC Chat

[SWSF Hale]

Okay I added new Missions --- Conquest and Diplomacy are done. Expansion was added as a Barren World-only mission. Force Training to come later.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Am I reading wrong or are we supposed to control the PDFs we are attacking? We play against ourselves?

[SWSF Hale]

Yes, you play against yourselves.... that is the only way to make this universe "automated" without HGM control.

[SWSF Hoppus]

That's.... not very fun Why bother playing at all if you're just posting against yourself? Can't another sim leader take over PDF like we've done before?

[Ramano]

If it would make people feel better and would take some of the burden off hale, I can play the neutral PDFs. Its not that big of a deal and that way no one is playing against themselves. No offense hale, I see what your saying, but hop is right, that is a terribly boring way to play. Not to mention it adds a whole element of giving a less then standard response from a potentially hostile planet. I can nearly assure you if thats how it goes I could slam Bakura head on right now with absolutely no fear of losing my RHD, the PDF will never shoot at it as long as other targets remain, which takes basically the only weakness in my fleet right out of the game.

So yeah, if its all the same to everyone else, and this is beyond hales activity rating, ill run PDFs for neutrals.

[Erasmar]

I kind of like the idea of controlling PDFs myself because then I'll be able to do interesting things with them, like having mistakes or whatnot. Certainly not to roll over and die every time, but having the battles be narratives instead of just competitions, which is how they are when it's PvP. Because yeah, if we want someone to control PDFs and know they'll do their damnedest to destroy us, it's Ramano

Could it be an option either way?

[SWSF Eidolon]

I'd opt for just leaving it the way it is as written, but in practice, the "aggressor" of a neutral world, has the option to control it himself, or dole it out to someone else if there is a willing party.

It'll be good practice either way and it's better left up to the player.  No indian giving though, if you don't like how someone you gave control of PDF of is playing it, too late, should have thought about that when giving up the right to control your own opposing neutral PDFs

[SWSF Hoppus]

I like Eidolon's answer - control yourself but you have option to give control away.

[Erasmar]

Also, fuck it, I'm going to play a fringer in addition to the Hapans. That Independent Hero spec is awesome; perfect balance of some details/rules while still leaving it open-ended. I'm tempted to have both a smuggler character and a pirate actually. Or one of each and have a whole family saga: father is the corporate leader, one wayward son is a smuggler, sister is a bounty hunter forced to hunt the smuggler, uncle is a feared pirate, etc.

I don't need TOR's legacy system; I've got GCW.

And oh man, the revolutionary? Absolutely beautiful.

[SWSF Hale]

Freelancer is fucking awesome if I may say so myself. You won't be sacking Coruscant with that Paramilitary Army, but you can definitely do some damage to most other systems... if you have the patience to wait long enough for the Army to grow, lol.

[Ramano]

Ok, few things, and as usual, im not trying to offend, so if you can word it better do so but:

A) Are we sure we want to let people have more then 1 character in the game at a time? Im not saying anything about anyone here, but this seems like a loophole found to increase fleet size. I know thats how "I" would/will be using it. I mean if we can have another character, I want another RA character with an MC-90 for his 23CP. Short of saying that players multi's cant interact with each other, which just seems silly to me, how do you prevent me from having it tag along with me everywhere and now I have an extra MC-90 to fight with. Like I said, im not trying to say anyone is trying to cheat, im just showing what COULD be done with this, and to say that yes, I will use it to cheat. Just being honest.

B) Im against having players control their own opponents in battle, for reasons explained earlier. Again, this is another of those loophole things that I will use to my advantage when necessary. For example, bakura. Yes, I can easily take down its PDF regardless, but, the point is the difference between loosing some free fighters and aux vs potentially loosing an irreplaceable flagship or a forced withdraw to save it.

[SWSF Hale]

You bring up some valid concerns:

A) I imagined the secondary Hero as more like your main character's "right hand man". If you have a fleet that can be broken up, one guy could do diplomacy while the other conquest, etc. The new character wouldn't get endowed with 23 CPs and 1000 KCs/Action Day, they would just be in your Fleet as part of your character's entourage. If you had the time and money to have two Officers fully upgraded on the Naval side to give you +2 CPs each, you'd be looking at a 27 CP Fleet. Granted, that's 2000 KCs for the 2nd Hero and then another 3000 KCs to get him to Grand Admiral (if I remember correctly). To me that seems like a risky investment, since I'd prefer putting money into income-generating facilities so I can max out my Flagship with Tier 1 Units, but hey... to each his own.

B) If I were attacking a system and took control of the PDF, I would do exactly what I would do if I were defending my own stronghold: go after the Flagship. Period. We also have community oversight in place too... let's say for example I invade some world with two PBCs and I have both of them target my aux and fighters first until they are all gone... I would raise the BS flag on that one. in reality those PBCs would go after the Flagship and drive it off. When I'm asking players to take control of the PDF, I'm asking them to exercise some reason and be an adult about it. I don't want to run into a situation like AE where we had hold-ups because sim leaders couldn't cover one another. With the "play yourself" system regarding NPC PDFs... that is not an issue. I'm in favor of the rules as is. If somebody wants to give another sim leader power over PDF, that should be their perogative, but I'm not going to legislate it in the rules one way or another.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Eras, I LOVED that Revolutionary Freelancer to!  Incredibly tempting.  If/when I get blown up, I might have to reincarnate as a Freelancer!

Viva la Revolucion!

[Erasmar]

First, awesome graphic, Eid. Don't know where you found that, but brilliant.

Second, I think, Ramano, that's where you and I differ. You bring up valid concerns for people that approach the sim as a competitive game, and yeah, absolutely, I wouldn't want anyone really using additional independents or heroes to unbalance things. And I think Hale fully explains it, sounds about right to me. The thought of using it to somehow "cheat" didn't even occur to me; in fact, the concept of "cheating" doesn't even make sense to my mindset based on how I approach it, because I've never been one about competing, which I know is not the norm at all. To me there's no cheat, there's no advantage, because I'm not at odds with anyone. If this were an MMO, I'd be on the RP server and Ramano and most others would be on the PVP-RP server -- both totally valid and respectable ways to play the same game.

And I love that difference, and I love Ram's honesty. If I had an indy character, I doubt it'd really interact with the Hapans at all, based on where I plan on taking the Hapans and what I'd plan on doing with the indy character. In fact, I totally plan on using an indy character (in addition to Pep'to Bizmaul, my Tatooinian holo marketer with IBS) to have a little more fun -- at least one. Maybe more, because I like the family idea like I describe. But never to gain advantages over others.

That said, I cannot WAIT to start a revolution on a neutral world. It shall be a cult. A dark cult, peaceful on the surface but dark and insidious in its depths. And maybe Ram and the RA will be just the person to bring its leader to justice and its people into the light!

[SWSF Hoppus]

I play this game like you eras--i think all of us do--and as for heros im fine with multiples, whatever people want.

I do find the idea of controlling the pdf ourselves to be very not-simming in nature though. It removes all the surprise and fun of combat and, well, SIMMING. Is it so hard for one player to step up and comtrol pdf? In all other sims any other sim leader would grab control-- whoever had time and desire to do it. No hgm needed.