The Last Jedi Discussion - SPOILER ALERT

[Medivh]

I figured I'd start:

I liked the movie.  It wasn't the best for me, but maybe my expectations were too high.  I enjoyed it. I will watch it again many times.  But I have a few criticisms.

A few thoughts:

1) Team Episode 8 must have read the no longer canon Star Wars books. 
The parallels between Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and Darth Cadeus/Jacen Solo are too much to be ignored.
- He kills family not because he hates them, but because he has to leave his past behind to become stronger
- He cares for someone, which causes conflict
- Rey plays the role of Jaina Solo, having a relationship with someone who she also must defeat, as in the books.  jaina was the sword of the jedi, destined to kill Jacen.
- Luke Skywalker tricks Jacen Solo with - yes, that's right - projecting his image across the galaxy, in order to save others.  Did the same thing here
- Luke regrets training Jacen; Luke regrets training Kylo Ren.  Luke places himself in exile and is not heard from for a long time
- Jacen becomes the head bad guy after his teacher, Lumiya is killed.  Kylo becomes head bad guy after Snoke is killed
- The light-whip, used by the red guards in the movie, was first used by Lumiya in the books


2) The movie doesn't seem to care about characters first introduced in Episode 7
A lot of mystery and build up about characters ends with rather quick deaths before they become important.
Most importantly, Captain Phasma and Supreme Leader Snoke.  Both are presumed to be really important, but both really end up having very short roles.  Phasma is unnecessary - it's just another storm trooper with a few more lines and a shiny suit.  Why have the character if she is so expendable?
Same with Snoke.  We presume him super strong, that he has an agenda, and a past and - who cares, he's dead?

3) The movie doesn't know what to do with main characters introduced in Episode 7
Finn spends the movie going on a mission that keeps him busy but literally accomplishes nothing.  They go across the galaxy to find a splicer.  They don't get that splicer, they get a different one.  Who then betrays him.  Was the first splicer important?
Poe is a fighter pilot who again, goes through a bunch of actions that get him in trouble with his superiors, but again, doesn't accomplish anything.  There was a mutiny, he was stunned for his mutiny, and then ... ok, that's it.

The only characters that GROW in this movie are Rey and Kylo Ren.  We seem them changes and develop as they interact with others and each other.  I enjoyed every seen with either of them, and they made the movie good.

Same with Luke Skywalker.  I liked how he showed (some) of what he could do at the end of the movie.  I wish we could have had more lessons with him before he dies. I hope He becomes a Force-Ghost guide for Rey, so we see him again in the future.

Episode 9 was supposed to be about Leia, and we saw a preview of her power in 8.  Obviously, with Carrie Fisher's death, that won't happen.

Finally, the whole making the good guys the underdogs with time running out was a little contrived.  The Republic is officially gone, the Resistance/Rebellion is literally dying as the clock strikes down, because star destroyers are too slow to catch up to a cruiser that is running out of fuel.  By the end of the movie, the falcon IS the entire resistance.  Thousands died, but the three dozen left, that's all we need?  Sure...

OK
Again, I loved Luke Skywalker.  The way he played off of Rey, Chewbacca, R2D2, C3PO, Leia.  I've always been a Luke fan, and was glad to see Mark Hamill as into the role as ever.
I even appreciated Yoda coming back.

Rey is fantastic, though we still don't know WHY she is as powerful and talented as she is.  That was never explained.  Remember, she beat Kylo Ren at the end of 7.  And she faced against him in this one.
Kylo Ren was more enjoyable in this film than the last, mostly thanks to his interactions with Rey.  I think Adam Driver has grown into the role more.  Also, I like his fighting style, which is unique, in stance, aggressiveness.

I really loved the in memorium during the credits to Carrie Fisher.

Oh, and General Hux has to die.

Discuss.

[Syren]

Saw it. Loved it. Here's some thoughts...

I though the explanation of Reys parents was a bit of a red herring. All that speculation to build up to the fact that they were drunk assholes who abandoned Her? No way.

Holdo. Now there's a girl after my own heart. I'm glad they finally showed a woman in power who can pull off a daring outfit...which goes to show that sexism is rampant. Just because a woman looks a certain way does not mean she isn't capable of greatness. Also, her sacrifice made the entire theatre gasp. Badass, girl. If you read the Leia: princess of alderaan like my nerd ass did, you saw how they met and became involved. I was hoping Holdo would play a future role but alas, not to be.

No backstory on Snoke?

I do wonder how they will handle Leia in the next chapter if they aren't using CGI (thankfully).

Overall, I felt invigorated once again and pleased they explored areas we haven't see before.

[SWSF Eidolon]

  The entire movie had a pace of Urgency from the first scene to the last which I enjoyed.  I think Snokes demise without any deeper back story is just a tip of ice berg.  Think back to how little we knew of Palpatine at the time, we didn't even know his name really when Vader throw him over the guard railing in DS2.  All that you ever know about him is that he's this all powerful bad ass pulling a million puppet strings at once, and then he seems to miscalculate/put too much faith in his divinations, and his creation bites him back finally.  Same with Snoke.

  I enjoyed that scene a lot though.  From the back building where Rey tells Kylo about her visions of him turning Light at the right moment, laced with Snoke revealing he created those visions but then Snoke speaking about a light saber igniting in his vision just before Reys saber/lukes 1st saber ignites and cuts him apart.  I think his seemingly fast paced death wo much back fill is just in line with what we experienced from Emperor at time, in fact we knew we more about Snoke.


  1) Was the Tracking Device purposefully made to look like a large Flux Capacitor?

  2) Del Toros character was awesome until the very last turn which left me feeling sort of like wtf regarding his character purpose and use.

  3) Holdo was ok, I didn't particularly find her personality for her position all that.. believable/engaging, something. Maybe its because she was dressed for a cheap ball imo.  I'd rather have seen her dressed like one of the other female Resistance officers to give that stronger visual impression.  Basically they dressed her like Leia in Bespin instead of Leia at Hoth to me I guess.  Two very diff angles of her persona.
 
  4) Chewie should heave eaten that Porg.

  5) The evolution of Poe beyond simple a hot shot pilot was cool.

  6) I think Reys background reveal is false.  Luke says at least twice in movie once to Rey, once to Kylo, "Everything you just said is wrong".  Snokes visions of the future are shown to be improperly interpreted as he mistook Kylos saber igniting and striking down Rey in his vision with Lukes old saber being ignited by Kylo to kill him.  This movie showed potential for user error in force divination maybe.  At least I hope, because otherwise, that is a DUD.  Also we're still left with why was Falcon on Jakku and why do her foggy visions as a young girl imply more tie in still even in retrospect with Kylos words and her tears?

[SWSF Eidolon]

 At very end, the stable boy when he runs off and grabs a broom upon exiting a doorway, does he force pull the broom to his hand sorta seemlessly or just kick and grab it?


If he force pulls ,which i wasnt positive on or not, than i buy kylos pitch of reys heritage of being a random as those would tie together well to show all across the galaxy there are and will.always be glimmers of hope in the force

[Syren]

But your critique proves my point...you expect a female resistance fighter to look a certain way but because she doesn't she doesn't seem believable in such a position. And that dress was spectacular, btw.


 


Eid-  AAGGH!  So sorry, I hit Modify instead of Quote again and realized after I'd saved and was like "wait, wheres her full response.."  .  APOLOGIES KAREN!   

[gallpizi]

I really wish they had put Leia on the Bridge of the Raddus and used her to take out the Supremacy. Not only would it have been a good way to hae her written out due to Carrier Fisher's death but also I feel like it would have given the sacrifice even more meaning than someone we just met this film.

[SWSF Eidolon]

But your critique proves my point...you expect a female resistance fighter to look a certain way but because she doesn't she doesn't seem believable in such a position. And that dress was spectacular, btw.

 I expect a Male Resistance fighter to look a certain way to, based on where they are and what they are doing. Not standing on the bridge of a warship in a Tuxedo or Cargo Shorts and flip flops when they pilot a flagship in to another.  I had no problem with her character traits and use, just felt the costume was a bad choice.


  To me it infers sort of the opposite, that a woman of power cant be presented in a non-sexualized form and expected to stand out.  Rather than a proper outfit for her role like every other Resistance Officer besides Leia, shes given a figure (not much of one, no hips, theres your sexism! ;p) hugging gown with a exposed clavicle and covered neck.  The purpose of the outfit is fashion expression/sexualized, not utility.  Thats fine based on where shes from, but shes on a warship filling the role of Vice President of the Resistance here.

  To me it'd have been more appropriate for her to be garbed in the same style as the female officer seated back and to the right of her.  The young blonde girl with the buns who survived the shuttle massacre, the older woman to the lower right in pic #2 below.  They had limited support roles, so the outfit was deemed fine for that.  But for the more important Support Char of Holdo, they needed to set her apart style wise by giving her an outfit with superficial as the prime design trait.  I don't think it's the blatant outright "sex sells", but its a little off in my eyes.

  Do soldiers want to see their superior officers dressed like them, ready for action, or dressed like they've been chilling in the officers lounge all career and ready for some mid afternoon cocktails?









   Glad to have the stable boy broom force pull backed up because I wasn't sure but I wanted it to be!

[Bishio]

Saw the movie for the second time today.  So I feel I have soaked it in enough to spill my beans.

What I loved:

1.  Luke.  They could have made him some all powerful hard ass but they didn't.  They maintained flaws and in the end he found redemption for his mistakes.  Mark Hamill played the role really well.  Over all I was very disappointed with how TFA ended without Luke being involved but I have to say this was worth it.  Really it was.  With how he faded away staring up at the twin suns.  For me? Perfect.  I hope we get to see him as a force ghost in 9.  Even if it ends up just being a line of ghosts before credits roll like Jedi.  I really liked the dynamic of him trying to prevent the next Vader actually being a prime reason of doing so by creating Kylo.

2.  Kylo.  Seriously this character grew so much during this move and it lead the character to grow on me a whole lot in the process.  More or less moved from an angry kid into someone that we understand the "why" a whole lot better.  He has depth with flaws and strengths.  Adam Driver really was able to pull off the angry teenager into without a better title at the moment "dark lord" of this trilogy.  I would be lying if for a little while I didn't think he was going to end up going good half way though.  But he had that moment with Ray like Anakin had that moment with Padme where he could have turned back but didn't.  It is a parallel I will keep in the back of my mind because it shows it still can be walked back.  Not sure they will (and who could be) but it will be in my mind when watching 9.

3.  The force.  I know this will be hit or miss with some people because it went to new places.  But I think that is what it needed.  Snokes ability to "link" or "bridge" minds.  The ability to project ones self across the galaxy but at the cost of life.  Also how Snoke saw exactly what Kylo was thinking but how it was in the wrong direction.  I loved it.  Always emotion the future is so its hard to determine right?  For me the only almost crazy bit used with the force was the bit with Leia floating back to the ship.  I feel it was one of two times they could have moved the character along to death due to the unfortunate passing of Carrie (the other being talked about above with being the pilot to ram the enemy ship). 

4.  Speaking of Snoke a lot there.  I am happy he is gone.  It was fun to try to guess the who and what with him and entertained me for, hell, a better part of a year.  But  I feel Kylo is going to be a whole lot better suited for the role and it will move away from the need of CGI characters (even though it was, again, done really well and a very deserving performance and tech used).

What I know will cause some "wtf" in the Star Wars community that didn't bother me, but hey, I noticed it too:

1.  Some of the humor was forced.  I think in most beats it started off good.  When it was short and to the point it was good.  But sometimes it went back and forth a little long and I could see where some people wouldn't like it.  Wasn't a killer for me but, yeah, there was a few lines where I felt that didn't need to go as far as it did.  I really felt the Luke humor was good and well placed.  Just a grumpy old man with regrets sort of perspective humor for the audience.  Droid humor was alright.  Really most of it was alright.  The only one that felt really strange was the Hux's humor.  I mean in TFA he was pretty much giving us an Adolf Hitler send off speech to the Republic, destroyed countless worlds, and was a real rival to Kylo.  Here he kind of felt like the butt of every joke and a push over.  I do understand he is young and likely not as great as he is projected to be but, yeah, I can see where it was sometimes a little to 3 stooges if you know what I mean?  It didn't make me cringe but I know for sure some people it will.

2.  Leia floating back to the ship.  Like I said above this one almost tipped me a bit.  It certainly didn't ruin the move for me or anything.  But I think a lot of it for me was getting to finally see her use the force and be more than just a normal person.  But I noticed it.  It certainly was a blip on my radar but at the end of the day I felt it was ok.  But oh boy, I know some people are going to really not like it.

3.  This movie takes places over a REALLY short span of time.  Maybe a couple days max?  This is mostly established by the escaping ships and the fuel supply (which is given direct timers at times).  So the questions that are going to undoubtedly arise are the whole "Ray becomes a master Jedi in a weekend" type of things because this movie started pretty much the instant TFA ended, this move was only a few days tops, it really means that this trilogy has only been about a few weeks of in universe time maybe?  Again, this really doesn't bother me a whole lot because I go for an entertaining movie, solid action, and a telling story that I don't try to poke holes into to much.  But I know it will bother some.

What I didn't like:

1.  Really only one bit.  The casino planet part kind of felt forced into the movie and kind of felt like it put the movie on hold a bit to long.  Maybe editing which is more a technical deal than a story flaw.  Most SW movies have separate story's and the scene shifts between them in snips and eventually the cross paths and converge.  This happened really well with the Rebel fleet escaping and Luke and Ray on the planet.  Then Finn goes to the casino planet and the movie pretty much just tunnels on them with a few very short snips of the clock counting down back at the fleet.  Now I will say once Finn and Rose get back into space the movie moves right back into the rotating story archs where it went between Ray's arch, the Rebel ships (eventually becomes the Poe arch really), and the Finn arch really well.  Then of course they all come together masterfully at the end.  Which is why I feel it is more an technical edit problem than a story driven one.  It just dragged on a bit to much and didn't allow the story of the other archs to feel like they were continuing while it was going.  At least from my perspective.  But it is just a personal opinion.

So the big question:

Where would I rate it?  Well Empire is my #1 and Jedi and New Hope can interchange pretty easily between 2 and 3.  I think I would put Revenge of the Sith next although its really hard for me to get over some of the dialog and over use of CGI.. but the story was so impactful and delivered.  Then I think this one gets slotted right behind it followed by TFA.  Then R1.  Then Phantom Menace.  Then holding up dead last is Attack of the Clones because sand and other issues I won't go into.  Of course this one is still pretty young in my mind and might move past Revenge of the Sith or down to FTA but I feel its pretty firmly in a spot or two where it will finally rest with the current slate of movies.  It won't beat out the original 3 to me but it certainly ranks as the top if not one of the two none original trilogy movies to date.

[SWSF Eidolon]

So the big question:

Where would I rate it?  Well Empire is my #1 and Jedi and New Hope can interchange pretty easily between 2 and 3.  I think I would put Revenge of the Sith next although its really hard for me to get over some of the dialog and over use of CGI.. but the story was so impactful and delivered.  Then I think this one gets slotted right behind it followed by TFA.  Then R1.  Then Phantom Menace.  Then holding up dead last is Attack of the Clones because sand and other issues I won't go into.  Of course this one is still pretty young in my mind and might move past Revenge of the Sith or down to FTA but I feel its pretty firmly in a spot or two where it will finally rest with the current slate of movies.  It won't beat out the original 3 to me but it certainly ranks as the top if not one of the two none original trilogy movies to date.

Out of Non OT Movies, I put it at #1.  Before that R1, and before that Ep III.

ESB forever #1.


I'm confident Solo is going to supplant TLJ though.



Re: Your poke at the Casino planet.  I liked the world and its make up!  I just was slightly thrown by the whole time/fuel consumption cocnepts between the Flagship and the Shuttle and what not.

Re: Time for Rey to master force.  With so much scene change back and forth its easy to lose the timing for me and get lost in it. 

  But to try and be (sl)ack-ademic about it, at some point since Rey left the Resistance Base on DQar with Chewie and Falcon, the Resistance migrated to the flagship and a whole lot happened, so shes been there for who knows how long.  The only time I think we have to consider the timelines/scenes crossing is from the first time she sees Kylo like he's in front of her. Prior to that, her time on the Island world with Luke is pretty fluid and probably a little while in terms of how it plugs in to the Flagship Chase timing.

  But I've only seen it the once yet so some of it is still this whole jumble of geek-gasms for me. =)

[Bishio]

Out of Non OT Movies, I put it at #1.  Before that R1, and before that Ep III.

ESB forever #1.


I'm confident Solo is going to supplant TLJ though.



Re: Your poke at the Casino planet.  I liked the world and its make up!  I just was slightly thrown by the whole time/fuel consumption cocnepts between the Flagship and the Shuttle and what not.

Re: Time for Rey to master force.  With so much scene change back and forth its easy to lose the timing for me and get lost in it. 

  But to try and be (sl)ack-ademic about it, at some point since Rey left the Resistance Base on DQar with Chewie and Falcon, the Resistance migrated to the flagship and a whole lot happened, so shes been there for who knows how long.  The only time I think we have to consider the timelines/scenes crossing is from the first time she sees Kylo like he's in front of her. Prior to that, her time on the Island world with Luke is pretty fluid and probably a little while in terms of how it plugs in to the Flagship Chase timing.

  But I've only seen it the once yet so some of it is still this whole jumble of geek-gasms for me. =)

For sure.  I really think the look of the Casino planet was great.  I do understand why they went there.  It just tunneled a little to much in my opinion.  It might grow on me though.  Just both times in my views it stuck out to me as very forced.

The time thing, again, really didn't and doesn't bother me.  But I know for a fact some people are going to be pulling the "mary sue" card a lot here.  I mean truth be told I think Snoke describe it best even if you don't want to try to explain the time itself "a powerful darkness rises and an equally powerful light will rise to face it" and let us be honest Luke didn't spend 10 years with Yoda either.  I think it is something a lot of people use that are purposely looking for holes rather than just enjoying a movie do but, hey, I can see where they were coming for if that is what I bought my popcorn for.  It just isn't because hell I just love SW.

[SWSF Hale]

OVERALL
Really enjoyed this film. I'm sure repeated viewings will improve my taste of it, as it did with TFA (which I really disliked and still do to some extent). I broke down my comments into Applause and Criticism.

APPLAUSE!
a. I was deeply concerned for the plot of this movie (as in, wondering if it was just going to rip off Empire Strikes Back), but alas, the overall story did not go as I thought it was going to go. Every single character aside from Leia acted impulsively (including Luke), which contributed to the overall pace of the film (for better or for worse).

b. Mon Calamari Cruiser hyperspace ram vs Super Star Destroyer = lots of people in the audience going "DAMN!" and "OH SHIT!" That scene was INsane.

c. Loved the development of Kylo and Rey.

d. "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope." The feels.

e. Talk about the ultimate Jedi Mind Trick!

CRITICISM
a. Laura Dern and Benicio Del Toro were overused as acting talent and underused as characters. You don't need that much star power for the roles they played. I did not agree with Del Toro's acting choices either... the stuttering came across as too quirky.

b. I don't buy Kylo's story of Rey's parents being drunk spacers for one second. She's special. And we know it. A pity they're going to leave us dangling AGAIN for answers.

c. Snoke. Once again the nefarious JJ Abrams Mystery Box has struck again. All those YouTube speculation videos are now just utter garbage that fueled the hype train (a key goal of the Mystery Box). If there was any doubt that this is not a George Lucas movie, Snoke proves it.

d. Resistance/Rebellion/whatever you want to call them, suck at life.

e. Leia should've made the sacrificial hyper-ram. They should've given Carrie her warrior-princess exit. Also as some have said: why introduce Laura Dern's character just to have her be thrown away? Alternatively, they could've given Ackbar a chance to do this as well, saying something gangster to the effect of "who's trapped now bitch?" in a savage mic drop moment.

f. The various unaccounted force ghosts are massive elephants in the room. If Yoda, why not Obi-Wan? Or Anakin? One visit from Anakin's ghost would've stopped Kylo/Ben in his tracks, so the reason this hasn't happened demands an explanation if its logically possible.

EPISODE IX PREDICTIONS
a. They are going to fast-forward the timeline. The in-film clock hasn't actually progressed a whole lot. So it's the only way they can make sense of a few dozen people being the spark if Episode IX is set much further in the future. The broomstick kid I think is symbolic - he represents the next generation of Rebel that will grow up to fight the First Order.

b. I don't presume they'll end this at IX. There's too much to account for. Get ready for Epi$ode X folks.

[SWSF Eidolon]

d. "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope." The feels.

Aw hell yeah, warm sensations in that moment.  As great of a movie as it was R2 still had the best line.

b. I don't buy Kylo's story of Rey's parents being drunk spacers for one second. She's special. And we know it. A pity they're going to leave us dangling AGAIN for answers.

I hope its BS.  Everyones visions seem to be four degrees off in this movie.

e. Leia should've made the sacrificial hyper-ram. They should've given Carrie her warrior-princess exit. Also as some have said: why introduce Laura Dern's character just to have her be thrown away? Alternatively, they could've given Ackbar a chance to do this as well, saying something gangster to the effect of "who's trapped now bitch?" in a savage mic drop moment.

If Leia piloted that'd be great finale for her, fantastic even.  Youd imagine that was pitched but Disney rejected perhaps a suicidal gesture? Who would fly through space then? 

This reminds me, I thought for a minute Finn would really kamikaze that Demi Culvern.  I can't believe I went for that even for a second.

f. The various unaccounted force ghosts are massive elephants in the room. If Yoda, why not Obi-Wan? Or Anakin? One visit from Anakin's ghost would've stopped Kylo/Ben in his tracks, so the reason this hasn't happened demands an explanation if its logically possible.

  I thought Force Ghosts only appeared as apparitions of the light, only light jedi become force ghosts and only light jedi can see/experience them?  Anakin would have not been force ghost if he had not been turned before dying was my thought.  No Vader force ghosts, No palp force ghosts, no Snoke force ghosts.  Maybe Sith were only able to be captured in some other element, ie trapped in holocrons as spirits to inhabit others, while jedi can manifest as their own selves to those whom they connected?






Favorite New Alien Species: The frog-nuns/stone masons!

[SWSF Hale]

As for the whole Holdo thing, my wife and I have mixed feelings about it. I think it is a bit odd that in Rogue One, they de-femenized Jyn Erso and make her character's clothing to be more utilitarian in nature. Just read the Glamour magazine interview with Felicity Jones. Or, you can just read the relevant selection here I pulled (out of context):

GLAMOUR: She does have that Han Solo–esque belt! Gwendoline Christie, who played the first female Star Wars villain in The Force Awakens, said she loved how her character’s costume was sort of defeminized, utilitarian. Was yours always going to be the same way, or did you have to push back against attempts to sex it up?

FJ: Not for a second. Everyone wanted to create a character that was not in any way objectified. We didn’t want to sexualize Jyn.

GLAMOUR: So there’s no moment where Jyn is suddenly a prisoner in a gold bikini.

FJ: No way. [Laughs.] We don’t even see Jyn’s arms! That’s not her priority. She’s a survivor, and she has a mission to complete.

GLAMOUR: That’s a big deal to me, as somebody who grew up on the early films—that there’s not an eye candy moment for teenage boys to jerk off to.

FJ: Gareth said very early on, “I want guys to watch it and be like, ‘I want to be Jyn!’” A female friend of mine said, “I love that Jyn looks how we look, with trousers and a long-sleeved top.” We aren’t in hot pants. When do women walk around wearing hot pants?

GLAMOUR: Rarely. In the first big trailer, five of the 10 lines of dialogue are spoken by women, suggesting that the year’s biggest tentpole passes the Bechdel test [which rates films based on whether two female characters talk to each other about something other than a man]. Were your feminist needs met by this movie?

FJ: I’ve always been a feminist, and what I love in my work is being able to explore a full-sided woman and not patronize her. Particularly with Jyn, it’s such a rare opportunity to be able to play a female who’s not just thinking about [romantic] relationships.

Now, here's some Dern segments from a Vanity Fair article titled: "Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017 - An eerily perfect installment for the post-Trump era."

Speaking about her character’s stylish-yet-firm leadership, Dern told Vanity Fair: “[Rian is] saying something that’s been a true challenge in feminism. Are we going to lead and be who we are as women in our femininity? Or are we going to dress up in a boy’s clothes to do the boy’s job? I think we’re waking up to what we want feminism to look like.”

This is why here in The Last Jedi, it seems like some flip-flopping is happening. "No, women can be sexualized. Older women with power at that... because FEMINISM!" I feel like it's a battle that can't be won. Critique Holdo's dress for being too sexy for war, and you're guilty of sexism. Critique Jyn Erso for not being sexy enough, and you're guilty of sexism. So, I dunno. I think it's best just to take the whole saga's portrayal of women writ large. They can be fierce, diplomatic, sexy, pin-uppable, warriors, rational, etc. It's the spectrum that matters at the end of the day.

[SWSF Eidolon]

  What I learned tonite..

 Billie Lourd, Carrie Fishers daughter.  I guess I should read more celeb stuff and I'd know these things..




   Lieutenant Connix.  She was in TFA to I am now noticing.




   Rose Tico. 

 

   Awesome character.  Her passion for the Resistance was moving, seems like a great actress (Kelly Tran).  Back to open bombing scene from her sister, was awesome and incredible scene.  Definite borrowed from WWII Bomber movies- Memphis Belle in space.

[Syren]

That's what i mean...desexualize or sexualize you can't really win. Let women be who they are...not what people think they should be. This is why I like Holdo. She's a leader who doesn't compromise her femininity or believe she has to in order to lead. But Poe doesn't take her seriously because of this and its a classic case of underestimation that happens so often of women in power. For me, I connected with this.

And yes, Leia and Amidala will always rule for me and with Jyn, Rose, Rey, and Connix it shows women in various positions and motivations. There were quite a few female pilots as well I noticed so overall I think they are doing better in the star wars galaxy with representation that doesn't revolve solely around a male love interest. That's a positive message to the girls out there the same way Leia and Amidala were to me in my childhood and late adolescence.