OOC Chat

[SWSF Eidolon]

Ch ch ch ch ch chh, ha ha ha ha ha

Ch ch ch ch ch chh, ha ha ha ha ha



Happy Friday 13th 

It's Yavin Landing Day! 

[Erasmar]

Personally I don't have a problem with Ram's character at all. It's one of those cool action movie cliches. But the other half of the cliche is often the government that sanctioned the renegade having second thoughts and sending in an elite team to take him out Or similar to Apocalypse Now. Not Rebel-like? Certainly. Belligerent? Yes. But the storyline has made it somewhat plausible, so that's good enough for me.

But we can storyline too 8)

I think it'll be great for some story telling and exploring what war is about, what it does to people, and the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists ... if anyone besides me wants to go that deep haha. If I were Dem/Hale/Gall, I'd be saying to neutral worlds -- "See! They really are terrorists! Come back to law and order." Even if that's twisting the truth, even if Ram is doing things that aren't terrorism despite being belligerent, that would definitely make sense for Imperial propaganda.

Hapans will have their response, I can guarantee that. I look forward to the possibilities. Play on, I say! Play on!

[SWSF Eidolon]

Dem attacks me theres no possible way he can bring the SSD with, if he hits you, well your probably still fucked even with my help but breaking our alliance hurts you WAY more then it hurts me/

The SSD cannot leave Coruscant.

Where does it say Dem can bring the SSD to Mon Cal? You're extrapolating a conclusion based on the fact that everyone else can muster their PDF to attack Coruscant, but check the profiles for the Imperial Heroes. There is a little phrase that says "if defending Coruscant, then the SSD gets the Flagship bonus". Key words: "if defending".

And secondarily we have double the player fleet presence ;p

[Dementat]

I still like my "leans rebel" or "leans Empire" idea. It would widen number of tech we could use. Bespin, for example, is supposed to be an Imperial garrison. Why does it not have Imperial troops and vehicles?

[SWSF Eidolon]

I still like my "leans rebel" or "leans Empire" idea. It would widen number of tech we could use. Bespin, for example, is supposed to be an Imperial garrison. Why does it not have Imperial troops and vehicles?

I agree with that aspect, PDFs should be tailored with a tad more consideration for presumable and already defined states of things, granted its there in many cases, just not reflected in Bespin. There ought to be stormy and TIE squads at least! =)

that even affects diplomatic issues as has been discussed here.  RAM attacking an Imperial forces garrison is more socially acceptable in terms of Diplomatic RAMafuckations(c)JJS 2012  than him attacking a independent free settlement/system

oh well, still story wise you could presume all that

[Ramano]

What part of NO PLANET is rebel or imperial unless stated in its notes are people having issue with? What you guys are failing to realize is after the event of the last 4 years in the SW timeline, no one likes EITHER of us. Everyone is neutral unless otherwise stated. What I do at any planet should not have any ramifications to any other player. This is the point in SW were after the death of the emperor all the planets tried become individual sovereignty's. The fact it was an imperial garrison on bespin means nothing, as those imps no longer associate with the empire.

The point of the matter, this is the GFTA (Galactic Free Trade Alliance) era in star wars, in this time, no one is really rebel or imperial but the individual fleet commanders. Nothing really reinstates until about 7ABY, which would be 3 years after where we are now. So even if I am acting somewhat imperial (And that would be arguable at best) it would have no baring on the NR as a whole.

Basically... if you dont want to be my ally, just say so and stop trying to hide behind storyline and bullshit... Just remember, yep you got 2 players in the NR, but unfortunately the imps have 3, which still leaves you outnumbered, and Dem is a better number cruncher then all 3 of us combined.

[SWSF Hale]

Ramano brings up a good point, which is the current galactic state of affairs...

This uni is set between 0~1 years After Endor (although tech level is more so 7 ABY), but we need not debate the "real timeline" or setting, because after all, this game is just a representation of the larger comings and goings of the Galactic Civil War that focuses on the stories and careers of individual fleet commanders and their exploits. We are all "shadows of power".

There are countless star systems not featured in this game, but Greg and I selected a really good batch of "name recognition" and "film canon" worlds that gives players a really good feel that this uni is definitively Star Wars.

Politically, the galaxy is much like it was in Europe after WWII ended... nobody really knew where to draw the political lines until a year or two later. The same can be said for many planets in this game. Some are aligned towards a faction outright (through Amnesty), but many are skeptical of politics and so they retain their sovereignty that was gained by virtue of a broken Empire or disorganized Republic.

This game still captures the essence of what it was like After Endor, which is that the NR was on its Campaign For Coruscant; while Coruscant itself was being subjected to infighting; the Remnant was getting mobilized by Thrawn; the Hapans were getting more involved... etc. If we created a more complex political alignment system for this game, I fear it would complicate gameplay even further. Remember, the "original intent" is to keep things as simple as possible.

[SWSF Eidolon]

    Ram, You dictate our response through your actions.  We don't make decisions based on OOC preference or dislike, we make it based on an interpretation of what's going on In Character throughout the galaxy.  Based on interpretation, you are making a friendship between the NR and RA increasingly strenuous any time you "INVADE" a non imperial planet.

    As the NR, we have made a conscious decision as players that to act within the traditional boundaries of NR activity, we annex independent systems only through peaceful means.

    You are breaking that standard.   Hence the fork in the road as far as faction relations go.  Does it mean we are going to attack you openly? doubtful.  Does it mean IC we would seek to distance ourselves from you? probably

    Regarding the balance of power, isn't it conceivable for Imperials to fight Imperials?  Doesn't the IR have to capture Coruscant to? (I thought?)  I know if I went Imp i'd be more interested in fighting Imps.  Infighting is always more fun 

[SWSF Hoppus]

Your logic is poor Ram, sorry. What you do SHOULD have ripples throughout the rest of the game. A sovereign government attacking another without provocation - that's going to be on the news, and in diplomatic circles its going to cause trouble.

Also an attack is an attack - hostile actions without provocation - so your *intentions* mean nothing, its the actions that people and governments see. Whether you are just disabling or whatever - thats not how you would realistically show a government they are vulnerable - by destroying/damaging/terrifying its population, lets be realistic.

If you want to play that way go for it, I won't tell you not to - no one will try to stop you. But in the same turn, don't tell the other players how they should respond to your actions IC either, let them play how they want to without being upset that they 'misinterpreted' your true motivations. They have only your actions and what they believe their character's response to those actions would be to go by. And for us NR folk, thats this: a wild and unstable government previously associated with RA that uses terror to force worlds into the fold - which is totally against the entire idea of what the RA and NR fought for.

That's all

[Ramano]

And you also have to keep in mind, at this point in the timeline, the republic had government, but a majority of their military strength was obliterated at Endor and the few battles that preceeded it. The empire still having a majority of its military strength but no actual government to speak of. (Think about leaderless armies) Neither of these parties would have ANY diplomatic pull with anyone right now.

And for the record, my character is not an NR sanctioned terrorist, and fuck you very much for thinking so, lmao! (That was a joke btw) He is simply a "The ends justify the means" type person, like any hardcore lifer military man would be. Im not going in wiping out entire civilian populous's for godsake. But, you need to remember that war requires sacrifice. And the given lives of the few go to strengthen the remaining lives of the many. This does not make me a terrorist or even imperial, it just makes me efficient. Yes, I play a little loose with the "ideals" of the republic, but then again, this is why I am my own faction and not simply a republic fleet commander. But lets not get it twisted, I still stand for freedom from oppression, and the idea of the greater good. Im still a rebel just like you hop and eid, im just more willing to do what needs to be done to win the war.

Bespin for example, yes, I could have played the whole NR goody goody route and went in all diplomatic like, and had them laugh in my face like should be happening to most diplomacy actions right now. Your government either doesnt exist or carries no power, why should they join you? My route I went in and showed them first hand just how woefully under-prepared they are to stand alone in the galaxy, and thus any storyline actions I make here should reflect that, and the fact I never actually hurt anyone. Like I stated, I only "assaulted the planet" because thats all the rules allowed me to do. But what many of us have forgotten about simming is the rules simply define the actions your allowed to take, its the STORYLINE you send with it that shows us what the action really was.

Maybe this was before your time, but back when simming started, an OGF had the ability to toss an entire post because it had a crap storyline, and also had the ability to over-ride set in place rules because of a well written storyline. This is the true essence of simming, and I understand I am the worst person for SLing laziness, but it doesnt change the facts. Its the storyline that determines whether or not an imperial war machine is out slaughtering every living thing on your planet, or a rebellion force is moving in to prepare your planet for inevitable war, or even a simple smuggler running to an out of the way outpost to drop off some illegal contraband.

So the moral of the story, wait for the SL before you try to determine a players actions. That or if unsure of what im doing, just ask me, im an adult, I dont need to lie to you.

[Ramano]

And what im saying hop is there is no grey area with this, if we are not allies, then by definition we are... yeah not a good situation for any of us fighting the unified imperial war machine...

And I dont get it, your telling me not to do something your sitting right here doing. You just said dont tell others how to play their game, yet you sit right there telling me either I never touch anything without an imperial stamp on it, meaning its 8 months before something gets close enough to make a move on it, or I can go fuck myself and we are enemies. And lets face it, you can sugar coat it all you want, but in a game like this, if your not allies you ARE enemies. So what your saying is either I play by YOUR rules or we all go into a 3 front war, which means the imps basically already won the game.

And if you even look in the rules, isnt this the point of our 2 factions. Friends with different ideals? The whole reason the RA left the NR was because they had a difference in opinion on how to fight the empire. The game is set up for our factions to be allies, your the ones sitting here screaming about how im a terrorist and should be nuked by the galaxy.

But hey, fine, to each his own. But consider this OOC a bit of an information leak then for an SL IC. You want it this way we will have it this way, but you bring them fleets anywhere close to my quadrant of the galaxy and Mon Cal is gunna have a wide open shot for a game ender. If we arnt going to be allies, then I will attack you on sight... consider that into your calculations.

[SWSF Eidolon]

And what im saying hop is there is no grey area with this

only a sith deals in absolutes, all the more suspicion of your conduct! 


  And you cohabitate with ewoks.  You don't scare us   

[SWSF Hoppus]

Im not telling you how to play at all! I'm just saying you cant expect Mon Mothma, Ackbar, and other characters in the NR to not mind or have any blow back from the fact a close associate of the alliance is going hardcore out there. Your logic is fine for your character - i get it - but you cant demand that every character in the universe adopts your vision of what is acceptable losses and what is not, etc - you said it yourself, your character is extreme. Well ours aren't.

Im not trying to make you do anything. But I'm also going to play the game the way I think is realistic and fun for the story, the same way you are playing. I have no problem with your IC actions OOC i think it makes an interesting dynamic and a bit of tension in the story for all parties.

[Erasmar]

First, I don't think anyone's screaming at all. I think people are confused by the Alliance's actions that you're having them take, BUT I think they're perfectly in keeping with your character and the background you wrote. It's a common plot mechanic to have that "ends justify the means" character as you said, and I think it's perfectly acceptable in this game. But other people can react to that character (in-character, people! let's remember to keep it separate!); that's the beauty of simming and writing, because we all have our own characters with their own motivations.

Second, I'm the one that first mentioned terrorism (I think). I don't know if Ram you've *actually* done anything with your character that could be construed as terrorism, I just know how I'd expect Imperials to slant the news of the conquering of Bespin. They receive the distress call, they set their propaganda machine spinning branding it just more Rebel terrorism. Then maybe the NR says, hmm, we'll give him the benefit of the doubt but let's check in on our ally and make sure he's still doing things we want to be allied with. I don't think that's unreasonable at all, and it makes for a great plot and character interactions.

Third, we ALL need to remember that for certain things our in-character knowledge is limited. No one should know about the assault at Bespin unless the distress call has reached them -- right? Or am I missing something in the rules? And that distress call would basically be a fleet under the Alliance banner attacking Bespin. I don't think the NR, as allies, would immediately jump all over the RA without investigating. The Imperials would be like, "Woo hoo! Propaganda!"

And fourth, me as the Hapans, I'm the wild card in the middle. I get that distress call in a couple days. How will I react? 8) We shall see.

Ultimately, I'm eager to pursue this angle, but I don't think it should be the focus of everyone either. Just another plot. I really, really just wish we can keep this as a civil OOC game while having lots of twists and turns IC. There is no screaming, no conspiracies, no one's out to get anyone else. I strongly hope no one is "hurt" OOC because IC relations head south. No one should be taking it that seriously! A game, people! A game of writing and silly space opera-ness! A game of thro-- no, wait, not that.

[Ramano]

Yeah, what Erasmar said. Im just pissed off my allies just basically told me to go fuck myself and got called an imperial and they shouldnt even know anything was happening yet... Im trying to believe its just coincidence but its awfully hard to think you guys arnt just hating on me over past bullshit and looking for an excuse to come after me.

Its simply if you dont like me, fine, say so, I appologize for all the past non-sense. You still dont have to like me, thats your perogative. But if thats the case, come out and just say so so we can get it out of the way. Otherwise, get off my ass until I give you a reason to be on it, lol. Yeah my actions at bespin might not have been "canonical rebel" but it was far from an imperial fleet wiping out all life in the system. Lets just be straight about that.

Give me the benefit of the doubt just once and I promise i'll keep the collateral damage to a minimum. Remember, if I wanted to play an imp, i'd have just been an imp, they have better ships anyway. Please, just let me get the stories up before you kick me in the balls ok?

And speaking of the fact, by the time the distress call was sent all their ships were disabled, there is no transmitter in the system... how did they even send a distress call to begin with? I dont really care one way or another, sure, it will be on the news, and let me guess, you believe everything you hear on MSNBC Fox and Friends too right? (Well syren probably does but thats besides the point!) The point im making though, even IF a DC was able to be sent, the only thing its going to tell you is an unfriendly force just entered the system. Its not like im rolling around in an MC-80, and I never sent any message, how the fuck do they know im rebel to begin with? Perhaps you NR boys might, but I know I sure dont roll around the galaxy with a big rebel flag hanging off the outside of my ship either, and if you read my storylines, I supplied my own ships, not the NR, so I ask again, how did they know it was a rebel force for the DC?

And you speak of my logic... tsk tsk.  

Edit: So now that I think about it, this whole issue is you using OOC knowledge to try and sever all association with me. So you know, I WANT to be your guys ally, and fight with you, not against you. But if you dont want that, fine, im not opposed to that idea either. Just be straight with me, and the rest of the game about what you WANT here.

Edit Edit: And just so we know where im coming from here and why my whole big issue is. I feel like your doing me like a high school girl would. One of them situation where you dont want to hurt someones feelings but godforbid you be seen talking to said person. That shit pisses me off right there. I can respect someone coming out and saying "Hey, I dont fucking like you" everyone is entitled to an opinion. But what I cant stant is when people try and act all face with you when your around, then hate on you up one side and down the other when you walk away, and thats really what I feel is happening right now. Like your trying to subtly tell me to go fuck off while saving face in front of everyone else here. Whether thats whats going on or not, thats how I feel right now.