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COMMUNITY => OOC Cantina => Topic started by: SWSF Hale on June 04, 2013, 03:35:28 PM

Title: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 04, 2013, 03:35:28 PM
Hey everybody!!

I need you to review the Galaxy Map:

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1nv5XyoNmoZW1nsH9k7fcbF5dLZymwwWxy8gBKQNrUos/pub?w=1121&h=1264

Please take this time to
1. PICK A CAPITOL
2. TELL ME THE OFFICIAL NAME OF YOUR FACTION

At a later time, we will be starting a "Planetary Draft" to pick 3 additional planets, however before we do I need Capitols and Factions!!!

I'll start us off...


Head of State: Lucidius Hale
Capitol: Coruscant
Faction: The Second Galactic Republic
Short Version: Galactic Republic
Abbreviation: GR
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: "The New Republic" or "the NR"
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on June 04, 2013, 03:40:02 PM
Head of State: Ta'a Chume
Capitol: Hapes
Faction: Royal Hapan Ascension
Short Version: Royal Hapan Ascension
Abbreviation: RHA
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on June 05, 2013, 09:11:04 AM
This thread has been moved into the OOC forum. Players, please take note and respond!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 05, 2013, 09:25:00 AM
Head of State: Grand Council of Elders [Vedo Anjiliac Atirue, Pazda Desilijic Tiure, Durga Besadii Tai]
Capitol: Nal Hutta
Faction: Granee Huttuk Kajidic [Grand Clan of Hutt-kind]
Short Version: Granee Kajidic OR The Hutt Empire
Abbreviation: GHK/HE
Slang/Alias: known as The Hutt Empire to most of the outside galaxy.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Erasmar on June 05, 2013, 10:27:08 AM
Head of State: Grand Admiral Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) (acting head of state)
Capital: Bastion
Faction: The Galactic Empire
Short Version: The Empire
Abbreviation: GE, IR
Slang/Alias: Thrawn's forces (to other Imperial factions), the Imperial Remnant (to all others)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Dementat on June 05, 2013, 12:55:27 PM
Head of State: To Be Determined
Capitol: Mandalore
Faction: Mando Cabure
Short Version: Mandos
Abbreviation: MC
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: "The Mandalorian Protectors"
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 06, 2013, 08:23:55 AM
Head of State: In Transition / Asani / Ranes *
Capitol: Eriadu
Faction: The Federated Trade Alliance **
Short Version: Trade Alliance
Abbreviation: TA
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: None yet.


* The Federation is in the mists of a transition of power, which involves Asani taking control and will also involve Ranes and Firestar.
** The Trade Federation will rename itself "The Federated Trade Alliance" with the storyline transitioning control.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on June 06, 2013, 08:18:24 PM
Head of State: Scapro Tyler
Capitol: Bonadan
Faction: The Corporate Sector Authority
Short Version: The Authority
Abbreviation: CSA
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: "Corp."
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on June 07, 2013, 10:54:47 PM
Head of State:  Me... We'll work on that. 
Capitol: Wayland
Faction:  The Empire of the Hand
Short Version:  Imperial Expansionist Hidden Empire
Abbreviation:  EotH
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: "Those other guys in Star Destroyers," or "Who the heck..." or sometimes "The OTHER white armor."  That last one sounded racist but I was picturing Stormtroopers.

* Fair note, this story just got a bit more complicated since someone is playing Thrawn in Bastion, but whatever I'll try to make it work. 
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: XCALIBYR on June 08, 2013, 05:26:56 PM
Head of State: Darth X
Capital: Korriban
Faction: The Sith Empire
Short Version: eh... Sith Empire
Abbreviation: SE
Slang/Alias/Shorthand: The Rightful Rulers of the Galaxy
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 16, 2013, 08:06:30 PM
Okay everybody. I'm sure there's at least ONE system in the galaxy that you are itching to grab regardless of what the rules might say, so I'm going to go ahead and begin...

PLANETARY DRAFT ROUND ONE!!

Private Message me your FIRST PICK for a system.

Political Capitols are off-limits. Additionally, the Hapan Ascension will be taking the 4 systems that represent the Hapes Cluster in this game, so those are off-limits as well.

Once I get all the first picks in, we will hold off on ROUND TWO until we post the Basic Gameplay Rules (within the next few days) pertaining systems. If there are any conflict in system picks, I will do some brokering between players.

If you pick anything that "doesn't fit" for your faction/politics, there's a very good chance I'll veto it and ask you to re-pick. If you want to avoid that from happening, just try and stay away from systems traditionally aligned to one faction or another. Remember, the in-character concept of the Pellaeon-Mothma Treaty is that these systems are picking YOU, not the other way around necessarily.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 21, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
PLANETARY DRAFT ROUND 1 RESULTS
Name -- (Capitol) System Pick
---------------------------------------------
Eidolon -- (Nal Hutta) Kessel
Ranes -- (Eriadu) Sullust
Gall -- (Bonadan) Mustafar
Javin -- (Wayland) Bandomeer
Dementat -- (Mandalore) Telos
Erasmar -- (Bastion) Kuat
Hoppus -- (Hapes) Charubah, Kavan, Gallinore (predetermined HSC starting setup)*
Hale -- (Coruscant) Corellia
XCAL -- (Korriban) Byss

NPCs:
Warlord Zsinj -- (Thyferra) Fondor
IFOO aka "Scourge Squadron" -- (Rothana) Kamino

[NPCs are exempted from further Draft picks. Yes, they just have 2 systems you need to deal with].
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on June 24, 2013, 09:32:50 AM
Okay....Is there a map of the galaxy we are using? Just curious
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 24, 2013, 09:48:30 AM
Theres a link to open in the first post of this thread.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on June 24, 2013, 09:51:53 AM
Oops. I am an idiot! Probably should have looked at that before drafting lol.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 24, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
BEGIN PLANETARY DRAFT ROUND 2!!!

PM me your picks!!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 24, 2013, 04:13:58 PM
The game is still afoot. Thank you everyone for your Round 2 selections thus far. Below is a list of some wealthy systems that have yet to be grabbed!

Bespin (975 KC / +8 SU)
Boz Pity (650 / +8 SU)
Toprawa (550 KC / +8 SU)
Naboo (525 KC / +8 SU)
Rhen Var (425 KC / +7 SU)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 24, 2013, 04:28:52 PM
Bah!  SHHHHHHH! :P  Erase that first one, darnit!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 24, 2013, 04:32:28 PM
Okay, since Hale has given away my secrets (kidding) I think this is ready to share with everyone:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApupzfIJw1KudE5Pd1ZwdW8waldDVzNUdnNzZFRmaGc&usp=sharing

That's what I'm calling the "Planetary Capabilities" Spreadsheet.  I found it useful for sorting through what I wanted to do, what I have, what I need, etc.  It was accurate as of yesterday, but you should always check the official list to be sure.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 25, 2013, 11:48:39 AM
Quote from: gallpizi on June 24, 2013, 09:51:53 AM
Oops. I am an idiot! Probably should have looked at that before drafting lol.

Perhaps if you ask nicely, Hale will let you redraft that one....


Also, question for Hale or Hoppus, or whomever has the answer!  If we take a leader-administrator and put them at a negative SU producing planet, will that halve the SUs needed by the planet?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 25, 2013, 11:55:48 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 25, 2013, 02:04:57 PM
Excellent...  Additionally:

"Core Abilities DO NOT stack their benefits with themselves (i.e. a Hero Unit cannot pick 3 Core Abilities of the same type and get triple the benefits). Additionally, two units with the same Core Ability DO NOT stack benefits either."

If I understand this correctly, the following IS allowed and WOULD stack:

Hero:  Admiral +10% to the Weapons, Shields, and Armor of the entire Fleet this unit is with.

Companion: 
Engineering +10% to the Weapons, Shields, and Armor of the capital ship this unit is onboard.

Leader:
Weapons +10% to the Weapons of the the capital ship this unit is onboard.

Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 25, 2013, 02:14:02 PM
That is correct... DIFFERENT abilities stack, but the SAME do not (i.e. Weapons, Weapons, Weapons).
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 25, 2013, 02:47:53 PM
Okay, so the hero could have all 3 of those and be good.  Or the companion could have both the companion and leader one together and reduce the character count to two for all three.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 25, 2013, 04:20:29 PM
That's the idea. Is that you can utilize a bunch of different abilities by spreading them out between your special units.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on June 25, 2013, 10:47:44 PM
I tried posting a question in the rule Q&A but it won't let me.  Don't know if that's intentional or what.

I had a few questions about hero units: 

1)  For Command Specialization it says "all capital ships of a specific class this unit commands" - is that specific class as in ship type (as in if this character is on a VSD, only all VSDs get that) or is it specific class as in designation (all Star Destroyers then) or is it specific class as designed by length guidelines?

2)  I didn't see rules for recruiting leaders/companions/etc.  How does that work?  I see I get a Hero and one companion to start, but do others just come when I reach a certain number of planets?  Do I have to conduct recruitment missions (ala Rebellion)?  Or do I just pay a cost and train them?

3)  Admiral says +10% to Weapons/Shields/Armor of the entire Fleet.  Does that include starfighters, auxiliary, and ground forces (when used)?  Is it just capital ships? 

4)  How does the Force work?  Is that a Core Ability?  It was set off, so I wasn't sure.  I assumed it meant, if you were to be a Sith Level III, it meant your other abilities were Sith Level II and Sith Level I.

5)  Are you going to expand on the economic benefits of the things like "Commercial Center" and "Natural Resources" or is that just for storylining?

6)  When we mention buffs stacking - is it multiplicative?  Additive?  In short, how should the calculations be performed.  Using RanesDsane's example:

If Vessel A has 100 laser cannons doing 1 damage each for 100 damage, then adds those three buffs.

If we calculate it as a multiplicative term:
100 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 133.1 damage (rounded up to 134).

If we calculate it as an additive 30%:
100 * 130% = 130 damage

Granted, the numbers probably do not vary drastically, but since it applies to weapons, shields, armor, etc it seems important.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 26, 2013, 12:10:13 AM
Quote
1)  For Command Specialization it says "all capital ships of a specific class this unit commands" - is that specific class as in ship type (as in if this character is on a VSD, only all VSDs get that) or is it specific class as in designation (all Star Destroyers then) or is it specific class as designed by length guidelines?

Specific capital ships only. ISD. However the ability is applicable to ships with I and II versions.

Quote
2)  I didn't see rules for recruiting leaders/companions/etc.  How does that work?  I see I get a Hero and one companion to start, but do others just come when I reach a certain number of planets?  Do I have to conduct recruitment missions (ala Rebellion)?  Or do I just pay a cost and train them?

It'll be a "pay to train them" setup. I'll be posting them under the Common Technology thread when I work my way down to Special Units.

Quote
3)  Admiral says +10% to Weapons/Shields/Armor of the entire Fleet.  Does that include starfighters, auxiliary, and ground forces (when used)?  Is it just capital ships?

Just capital ships.

Quote
4)  How does the Force work?  Is that a Core Ability?  It was set off, so I wasn't sure.  I assumed it meant, if you were to be a Sith Level III, it meant your other abilities were Sith Level II and Sith Level I.

Yes, since the Hero gets three ability slots, Heroes are the only units that can be Jedi or Sith Level III since their first two abilities are Level I and Level II. When I post the Special Units it'll be self explanatory.

Quote
5)  Are you going to expand on the economic benefits of the things like "Commercial Center" and "Natural Resources" or is that just for storylining?

Behind the scenes for development purposes, they were used to calculate Industial Output, but otherwise they have no other intrinsic value.

Quote
6)  When we mention buffs stacking - is it multiplicative?  Additive?  In short, how should the calculations be performed.  Using RanesDsane's example:

10% + 10% = 20%
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 26, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
Starfighters and AUX for the Common Tech is UP if y'all wanna take a look.

LOTS more to pick from in comparison to GCWII. Also threw in some stuff from The Old Republic so we can stay current. =)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Dementat on June 26, 2013, 11:31:27 PM
I protest the common use of the StarViper ;-)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 26, 2013, 11:58:51 PM
Don't worry my friend, you'll get a spiffier Mandalorian version =)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 27, 2013, 03:10:20 PM
Going through and doing a bunch of math and came up with another question:

"GROUND FORCES
Every system can support a Defense Army with Command Points equal to the Industrial Output of the system. Ground units can consist of any support unit (infantry, vehicle, starfighter, or auxiliary), however, no more than 1 SF Squadron and 6 Auxiliary Craft per Hyperspace Route is permitted."

Does this limit include 'bonus' defense provided by facilities, or are those:  a) considered space based or b) above and beyond this limit?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on June 27, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
Quote from: RanesDsane on June 27, 2013, 03:10:20 PM
GROUND FORCES
Every system can support a Defense Army with Command Points equal to the Industrial Output of the system. Ground units can consist of any support unit (infantry, vehicle, starfighter, or auxiliary), however, no more than 1 SF Squadron and 6 Auxiliary Craft per Hyperspace Route is permitted.

Does this limit include 'bonus' defense provided by facilities, or are those:  a) considered space based or b) above and beyond this limit?

The rule describes the default case, ie without facilities or special considerations. If a facility or feature permits additional SF/Aux numbers, those are ADDITIONAL to the default allowances (above and beyond the 1 Squad/6 Aux per Route limit).

All SF/Aux NOT part of a ship/platforms compliment are GROUND BASED. They are stationed on the surface of the planet.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 27, 2013, 07:22:16 PM
Political Capitols used to be granted x6 IO for space defense, I see it's been changed to 5k.  That's terribly low and makes our bases be able to afford virtually nothing.   Most player fleets alone will be 2000CP above any one persons Political Capitol, hell even non political capitol worlds at x3 now if they had high KCs would have heavier space defenses. . .


Examples:

Hutta 5000KC

1 Golan III - 2500
1 Inkabunga - 1105

  this leaves 1400 to out fit them which is probably barely enough if even enough.

   no room for anything in 5k man.


  Kessel IO 1800 * 3 = 5400KC.

 
  My player fleet is 7000KC.  I could go in to Kessel and match it no prob, rightfully so Great dynamic, it just a strong ancillary system.  But to be able to stroll in to Nal Hutta at will as if it were ANYBODY elses capitol (provided their player fleet was off doing something, which we want everybodys to be!) is a bit harsh and undesirable dynamic from player standpoint




  I realize part of the problem is the potential for Super Fleets with the x6 IO when borrowing from your capitol, but still someone could drop a Administrator on Capitol and 5k becomes 10k and can create x6s out of x3s as is now, and there is y our s uper fleet there in this method anyways, but perhaps a way of compensating for that  is simply creating a maximum ceiling of borrowing power in CPs (like 3-5k maybe?) and cut out the range limitation (or make it bigger, 48-72hrs) for your support drawings from PDFs.  In reality, the ability to borrow ships from pdf in an unlimited supply based on SU availability (and go 24hr rng) takes some value out of building platforms for defense as well. . .you can't take them with you and they eat up CP all the same.  Almost makes plats near obsolete..

  Though with the current dynamics, you could take defense ships from other systems and spend the SUs to station them where you want within 24hr range which hopefully you'd have the logistical capability to do with your capitol, but then another system is literally BARE just for Capitol to be DECENT.  For players without consolidated beginning systems they are incredibly vulnerable to attack.  The basic xValue system leaves things quite sloped, for instance comparing what Nal Huttas totals to Korribans would be is possibly largest gap, but the strict 5k just purely ain't cutting it especially considering that it's an outright handicap for most peoples capitol system from what it would be if it were treated as every other in game system with a x3.  Please be so kind most gracious GM to cut us a little slack on the capitols! ;)    There's nothing else we can sleep easy on in this tense game, and I LOVE THAT, but I'd like to know my sweet little muddy nest is safe =)  5k ain't buyin sheet
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 27, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
We're toying with a couple ideas right now regarding the level of Capitol Defense.

In trying to solve this problem, it became very clear that it was complicated, mainly from three key areas:
A) Making Capitols too beefy is it allows players to barrow an exorbitant amount of CPs from them.
B) Making Capitols "bastions" of military power makes them invincible.
C) Not all Capitols were created equal in terms of Industrial Output. Some - even with x6 - were barely scrapping by.

-- We don't like A because the potential for a 10k CP Player Fleet rolling on somebody else's Capitol is all too real.
-- We don't like B because we want Capitols to be vulnerable, thereby forcing players to stagger and tier their system defenses as to allow the Capitol to be properly defended (i.e. controlling any number of satellite systems within 24 hours of the Capitol as to facilitate Combat Support).
-- We don't like C because some Capitols (especially Nal Hutta) would become ridiculously overpowered in comparison to others.

5000 Command Points is plenty to work with, especially if you put an Administrator on your Capitol, thus increasing the allowance to 10,000 CP... which is more than enough to keep your Capitol safe, but not immune to a single player's attack. Don't underestimate the number of extra defenses planetary features and facilities can bring to the table either.

The extent to which CPs can be borrowed from your other systems for Combat Support will be detailed in the Combat Rules, as we are certainly concerned with the potential for players to abuse this feature and create monster fleets that can sweep Capitols single-handedly.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 02:34:33 AM
I gotta agree with Eidilon, after trying to put together a PDF for my capital (who actually benefits from the 5k vs loses points), I found it very lacking.  I think they're far too vulnerable right now.  Granted, we haven't seen all the rules yet, but what about giving capitals a certain number of additional points for platforms only?  Platforms can't move, so they can't be put into a larger fleet, but it beefs up the capital some so they aren't completely vulnerable.  Say, 5k points of platforms, 5k of ships/fighters/aux, and KCx3 points of ground for capitals.  I think they'd still be plenty vulnerable, but at least they'd be somewhat stronger than a base player fleet (which can be 8k without PDF borrowing), but still assailable with some help from PDFs.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Dementat on June 28, 2013, 02:39:57 AM
Rane's nailed what I was going to suggest. Maybe a percentage CPs for additional stationary defenses could remedy the problem?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 07:21:51 AM
I very much like something in vein of Ranes suggestion.  You cant leave our capitols so stand alone awful and expect us to go out and do much conquering.  The flaw in Borrowing dynamic for Super Fleets exists still aside from tempering the Capitols, other systems are still all stand alone conquerable- but you end up with dozens of systems outthere stronger than capitols which neither fits reasonable expectations of "reality" and from my personal standpoint as a player is highly detrimental to fostering activity.

Overall its great all together just needs slight power tweeks, i think punishing capitol systems is bad way to tweek.

With 5k alone getting a comscan and holonet in is even going to be difficult (as its already going to be w any other mediocre system using the base x3).  Maybe something like for capitols free comscsn and holo, 1 free XQ1 OR XQ2 loaded up and 1 free heavy golan loaded then the 5k limit?  Just thoughts.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on June 28, 2013, 08:31:48 AM
So making capitols near impossible to attack will stimulate activity? And giving capitols bonuses is punishing them because you want MORE bonuses still? ;)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 09:35:31 AM
Quote from: RHA Hoppus on June 28, 2013, 08:31:48 AM
So making capitols near impossible to attack will stimulate activity? And giving capitols bonuses is punishing them because you want MORE bonuses still? ;)

My capitol has no bonus.  It is penalized.  It's base IO would be 6825 based on the x3.  You want me to onyl be able to use 5k.  Thats an 1825 penalty, not a bonus.

What is the point of a Political Capitol if a regualr system you possess with 1800kc income or higher and outfit at x3 IO will have heavier ingrained defenses?  This will be the case with any person who's capitol system's base IO x3 total is larger than 5k, which is more than myself included.

The majority of my systems and ones i intend to annex will be linked within 24hrs, so myself, I'm not too bad or worried as PDF sharing (provided this isn't compeltely nixed or skewed to make capitols even weaker yet) allows me to boost my worlds immensely.  This is not even an argument I'm making for my individual case because my set up is juicy, it's for the dynamic and every player as a whole.

Capitols need to be good stand alone but the problem of this is the Admin ability which potentially doubles them (which you can turn any x3 to a x6 anyways as is even with nerfed caps), and the PDF borrowing which means you can borrow to make super fleets.  These two subjects can be addressed separately without beating capitols in to the ground as back water secondary defended worlds.

So even if you say that this is to address the issue of an unbeatable force, it's not addressing it.  Admins still allow unbeatable stand alone PDFs.

a basic 2400 world becomes 14400 while the highest any political capitol could go is 10000.  In this instance, Byss which is not a political capitol has a higher ingrained defense than Nal Hutta by almost 50%.  There are how many 2400 worlds?  2 or 3 I think.  Byss was not an option for me to select, it'd have gotten over ruled, but I'd have picked it based on numbers alone if I could had I known the dynamic would be changed to work like this.  I'm just syaing.  Leave some meat on the bone for the players please.  It just seems to me liek the wrong fix for the problem is being applied, and capitols are the only place suffering because of it, being left relying upon other worlds to defend itself, when it ought to be other way around.

This example isn't even factoring in the bonus facility units, capitols in terms of which generally don't have a lot of because all their start facils are the special or basics.  Again giving huge boosts to non capitol worlds.  With current dynamics my base defense at Vergs and Kessel are going to far out reach Nal Hutta.  And whats to stop me from buying up 3 leaders and making all three of them then x2 Space Defense.  Then I'll have Hutta at 10k, Kessel at 10800, and Vergs at 9000 + Major Shipyard Ship and more.

I got no problem with and encourage the concept of most worlds being attackable with a base player fleet, but a Political Capitol you should have to rally a bit more force than your normal player CP to go after.  All the other modifying and multiplier aspects create a hostile imbalanced environment for the 5k blanket limit at Capitols.  Unlimited PDf borrow ceiling must also be addressed to reign in max fleet projection potentials, even with 24hr rng. And the Admin Double Space Defense is GREAT in theory, but the proportions of it as it stands may be entirely too much.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: RHA Hoppus on June 28, 2013, 08:31:48 AM
So making capitols near impossible to attack will stimulate activity? And giving capitols bonuses is punishing them because you want MORE bonuses still? ;)

No, making them so vulnerable will discourage moving our main fleets out of them (or keep it very close) and, therefore, discourage activity. 

A Capitol should be hard to attack, it's the capitol.  Players can field 8000 CPs with a bit of effort, that leaves capitols far too easy to attack, even considering extra forces from facilities.  Consider also that nearby PDF fleets can be added to that attack fleet, increasing the attacking fleet beyond 8000 points.  That's probably enough forces to capture the world before a traveling fleet and/or nearby PDF units can respond.

Also, As pointed out, it is not a bonus to two capitols (Nal Hutta & Nar Shaddaa, and Thyferra).  Lets also put it into perspective, for me, it's a 500pt bonus.  Yeah, it's a bonus, but it's 1/9th additional of what I would have had without it.  Here's what I could do with 5k points:

Advanced ComScan Station150pts
XQ-1 Interdiction Platform625pts
XQ-2 Interdiction Platform1200pts
Golan-II Space Defense Platform1350pts
4x CloakShape Squadron580ptsAssigned to Golan-II
12x Firespray-class Patrol Ship204ptsAssigned to Golan-II
1x StarViper Squadron189ptsAssigned to XQ-1
6x Firespray-class Patrol Ship102ptsAssigned to XQ-1
2x StarViper Squadron378ptsAssigned to XQ-2
12x Firespray-class Patrol Ship204ptsAssigned to XQ-2

Take into account facilities, and I can add:
+1 Capital Ship up to 1000m
+2 Light SF Squadrons
+12 Light AUX

The ComScan is pretty much a requirement for a capitol.  3 Platforms don't even cover all 'quadrants' of attack.  Then fighters and Aux for the platforms....  That's pretty light, not even any room in the remaining 18 points for any kind of ship. 

Hence, going back to my recommendation of points for platforms only.  5k was an example, pick a number.  Say, enough for the ComScan, Holonet, and 4x loaded Golans.

Alternatively, look at the PDF platforms realistically.  A 2500pt Golan-III may as well not exist, really.  2/3 of the planets couldn't field the platform alone, much less put fighters on them.  Only 13 of the 72 planets we have could even minimally fit them (Tie Fighters, and your choice of one of the 14pt Auxes) for 3136 points...

Okay, now consider that putting one at our capitol (minimally fit, mind you) would leave us with less than 1900 points for other PDF...

The more I run the numbers, the more I worry that the KC=CP equation is flawed, particularly for PDFs.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 28, 2013, 12:06:06 PM
The extent to which you can use CPs to temporarily boost your fleet will be taken care of in the combat rules, but for starters (just to quell this discussion):

1. Expect to pay higher maintenance premiums when PDF units leave their system for combat-related reasons during any Action Period.
2. Expect minimum PDF requirements that will have to remain in order for you to keep control of a system (this will also factor in how systems are conquered and when exactly an opposing faction gains control, because simply showing up and blowing up everything is only part of it). One does not simply abandon their ports. Modern naval powers on Earth don't even do that.
3. Expect Ground Combat to be costly to the point where attacking a Capitol just won't economically be feasible singlehandedly, let alone militarily feasible.

Again, don't underestimate the Administrator bonus as well as Defense Industry bonuses as well. By getting caught up with this "Capitols got nerfed to 5k" mentality, try looking at the bigger picture: it evens the playing field.  There are of course, a few systems in our galaxy that present unique challenges. Do I feel comfortable at Coruscant having Byss exactly at that 24 hour hyperspace range? Not in the least bit, but you can bet your ass I'm going to keep Coruscant safe at ALL times by NOT pulling units from it for offensive Combat Support.

But, I'll do CORUSCANT with an Administrator just to show you the extent of my defensive capabilities:

Coruscant
Bonus PDF: ISD Liberator
Space PDF: 5000 CP
Ground PDF: 2400 CP (limit: 4 SFs + 24 AUX)
Defense Industry PDF:
Basic Shipyard (1 capital ship up to 500 meters)
Light Plant (2 Light SF + 12 Light AUX)
Light Factory (30 Light GAVs)
Basic Grounds (250 Basic Squads)

Okay, so even if an attacking player rolled in there on Day 1 with a 10k CP Fleet, they'd have a pretty tough wall to crack - but certainly crackable. Even with my ISD Liberator bonus, Coruscant's space defenses could be easily overhwhelmed by a Sith Empire attack based from Byss.

Now let's throw in the Administrator:

Space PDF: 10k CP
Ground PDF: 4800 CP
Defense Industry PDF:
Basic Shipyard (2 capital ships up to 500 meters)
Robert Plant (4 Light SF + 24 Light AUX)
Light Factory (60 Light GAVs)
Basic Grounds (500 Basic Squads)

This is pretty close to invincibility in terms of the likelihood that any single player has in conquering Coruscant. Nevermind the fact that even though I have all of that extra room for bonus units, I'll still have to pay for them when that option becomes available. Nevermind the fact that somebody could attack a Capitol just to deal a lethal blow to their space defenses and then retreat... thus forcing that player to spend buckets of credits on repairing defenses.

Essentially, we're trying to create a system here where 1 player can take over any system by themselves, but 2 players would be needed to truly take over a Capitol. In the history of GCW, all the player vs player interactions were atypically 1v1... so we expect everybody to naturally form cooperatives or full-on alliances when the time comes for attacking high-end production systems, or even Capitols.

At this point I'm just going to have to ask you to trust the system and the rules FOR NOW and take a "wait and see" approach. We can put this game in developmental hell by slogging it out on the drawing boards all day long, so let's REVISIT this issue when the game is active and its clear through practice and observation over which rules are working and which are not.

Getting caught up with discussion over how unprotected Capitols are detracts from the main purpose of this game: Capitols can be just as vulnerable as every other system... all the Star Wars books routinely demonstrate that NO system is safe.

(Combat Note: Units in LOW ORBIT can attack adjacent units in ALL High Orbit grids).
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 12:13:59 PM
What's with the bonus ISD at Coruscant? ;p

Is that a BONUS or is it sposed to represent your player fleet being there?  If we get a Bonus PDF heavy ship, that changes the base 5k limit dramatically.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 12:36:32 PM
I'll hold off further debate until the combat rules are published, I just prefer to point out concerns before we have to figure out how to 'fix' something that is decided to be broken later with funds already spent and such.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 12:57:23 PM
Listen to me now, or listen to me later ;p

Also I need to know whats up with that Bonus ISD at Coruscant, I don't see any legitmate rules in place yet providing for it from either Facil Bonuses or Planet List traits, so unless you are factoring it in based on your Player Fleet CP, it seems it's just a gift to yourself, in which case, we're expecting gifts as well ;)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 28, 2013, 01:02:39 PM
ISD Liberator is there in an attempt to reconcile the transition of power between my character and the New Republic. Let's not forget that I built a Super Star Destroyer in GCWII as well. ;) Just trying to "respect" Coruscant for being the "center of the political galaxy" by giving it a due bonus and as a nod to the SSD Lusankya that the NR acquired in the canon lore. It's limited in that: all the SFs and AUX I put on it will eat up my Command Points AND if destroyed I have to pay for it AND it can't go anywhere.

Darth Algoz also built the Death Star III in GCWII, and that hasn't gone anywhere either. It will rear its ugly head at some point. As the GM I have plenty of aces up my sleeve for potential Flashpoints... one them potentially being another Battle of Coruscant that'll wipe the ISD Liberator out.

So to answer your question: the ISD is there for story purposes. (Did you not read the NR tech page yet?)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 01:08:04 PM
What?

*SKKKKREEEEEEEEEEETTT*

that's the brakes almost going out.


   So you're giving self FREE ISD at YOUR Capitol based on the fact that you built an SSD and all kinds of "continuity" aspects from II?  That is HIGHLY HIGHLY unfair and biased towards youself.  It's mighty convenient to work out that you get a FREE one time ISD, and are content for everyone else to have their Capitols work another way.  Not saying this is openly skewing game in your favor, but the congregation of excuses for it's allowance combined with the fact that it puts you alone and your capitol alone at a huge advantage, that's quite a heaping pile of bullshit.

   I had an SSD building as well that was at least half way along by time II ended.  I'm going to have to strongly object to that little self bestowed favor.  Unless everyoen else is getting a free empty one time heavy cruiser, I don't see why you should either.

  Everyones putting and has put in LOTS of work.  It seems an unjust reward and leg up to give yourself imo.


EDIT -  You cite story purposes but it has tangible worth that is not being accounted for.  it is free defense that you and you alone are profiting from.  

  And yeah I read NR specs once, but inbetween having to go back and re check what was changed in rules that were already posted with no notification, I don't have all the time in the world to memorize everyones spec pages at the moment.  Soon enough tho ;)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 28, 2013, 01:22:15 PM
Alright. Point made.

RSD Liberator now counts towards my CP.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on June 28, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
Quote from: GCW Hale on June 28, 2013, 01:22:15 PM
Alright. Point made.

RSD Liberator now counts towards my CP.

good luck outfitting it and squeezing anything else in there ;)


my last public lament/suggestion of the subject. . .

Leave the x3 base alone for all reg worlds.  Give every persons Political Capitol a base of about 8k.  make it so the Administrator Ability is only a x1.5 modifier (8k becomes 12k, x3s would be x4.5s).  Make PDF borrowing subject to a "Support Fleet" system.  Give support fleet a max bulk of like 2500-4000 KC and NO TRAVELING DISTANCE RANGE, make them cost Double SU Upkeep so that it's not simply a smaller gimme player fleet.  Support fleet untis can then be used for any purpose, to beef up other world defenses, to join player fleet, to conduct separate offensives, to be used to run supply units, etc etc.  The trade is you are taking them from their homeworlds defenses and you ahve to pay extra SUs to keep them out.  Capitols are strongest then, and lesser worlds don't have as much of the potential as before to be DOUBLED.  Overall, likely ending up with a galaxy full of more conquerable worlds.  Elimination of the 24hr travel time rule was compensated for by the extra SU cost of Support Fleet ships.  You can take up to the 2500-4000KC with you half way across galaxy where you control nothing if you want, but you're going to pay a ton of SUs to be out there and are pulling a ton of defenders away from your systems as well.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 02:00:46 PM
Hmm...I didn't realize an Administrator would also double the defense industry stuff.  Good to know.

Clarification question not related to CPs.  Please define "Industrial Output"   I assumed KCs, but I want to make sure.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 04:29:24 PM
Got another one:  With the 'Defense Industry' add-ons, I assume the capital ships come empty and anything we want on them has to come out of normal CPs or other 'Defense Industry' add-ons.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 28, 2013, 05:11:26 PM
Hey everyone. I took down the current rules so Greg and I can hash things out and get back to you on them.

I apologize that, in my desire to get this game up and running ASAP I took some development shortcuts and clearly things just aren't ready yet to be launched. I'll continue to work on specs and get everything up... because as always Specs should drive Rules, not the other way around.

Thank you everyone for your patience. I apologize for the confusion, frustration, and delay.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 05:17:44 PM
FWIW, I think you have it mostly right, and while I may point out things I find odd or disagree with, I think most of those rules are just fine.  In any case, I think we're all anxious to get going, but I, at least, am willing to wait a bit longer to get the rules 100% and have a better sim for it.  I certainly appreciate y'alls hard work on the rules.

In the mean time, we can all still write stories!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Rinny on June 28, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 05:17:44 PM


In the mean time, we can all still write stories!

Yes, chop chop! Everyone get on that! :D  I just want to say, I'm glad I'm not dealing with all of that.  I have no idea what just went on in this thread. XD
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on June 29, 2013, 09:38:22 AM
Quote from: Rinny on June 28, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: RanesDsane on June 28, 2013, 05:17:44 PM


In the mean time, we can all still write stories!

Yes, chop chop! Everyone get on that! :D  I just want to say, I'm glad I'm not dealing with all of that.  I have no idea what just went on in this thread. XD

I'm good with that - time to write the next piece of my character's back story (I started like 10 years before this universe began, so... I've got a long time to go!)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on June 29, 2013, 09:06:23 PM
Those previous comments made me think - I need to get into reading most of the other stories completely...

But I noticed the views.  Everyone seems to be reading and re-reading Ranes' story. =)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on June 30, 2013, 01:28:30 AM
What happened with round 2 of planetary picks?  Did we ever finish it?

Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on June 30, 2013, 06:13:23 AM
Waiting on 1 more player. I'll post the results when I get them. =)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on July 03, 2013, 03:33:13 PM
Egads man! Hurry up whoever hasn't picked!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on July 03, 2013, 05:15:29 PM
PLANETARY DRAFT ROUND 2
XCAL -- (Korriban) Byss, Druckenwell
Hale -- (Coruscant) Corellia, Yavin IV
Erasmar -- (Bastion) Kuat, Dantooine
Dementat -- (Mandalore) Telos, Onderon
Ranes -- (Eriadu) Sullust, Rendili
Eidolon -- (Nal Hutta) Kessel, Vergesso
Gall -- (Bonadan) Mustafar, Sluis Van
Javin -- (Wayland) Bandomeer, Contruum

LOOKING GOOD EVERYONE!!!

COMMENCE ROUND 3? ANY OBJECTIONS?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on July 04, 2013, 04:14:47 AM
Hmm....some interesting picks in there!  I don't object to continuing on to round 3 (Final round, yes?).  With the draft done, I can start plotting a bit more.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on July 04, 2013, 05:15:23 PM
SEND ME YOUR ROUND 3 PICKS!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on July 10, 2013, 04:50:41 PM
3rd Round results ready for reporting yet?  Eager to get the last batch of potential targets ;D
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Erasmar on July 10, 2013, 05:17:35 PM
Sorry folks, I may have been holding it up.

I also haven't posted any storylines to go with the excellent tapestries everyone else is weaving, and I don't think I will prior to us getting going. Rest assured, Thrawn will have his day. Played by, of course, the man who was born to play him:


(http://fictionalhonesty.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/thrawn1.png)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on July 10, 2013, 09:28:10 PM
Quote from: Erasmar on July 10, 2013, 05:17:35 PM
Sorry folks, I may have been holding it up.

I also haven't posted any storylines to go with the excellent tapestries everyone else is weaving, and I don't think I will prior to us getting going. Rest assured, Thrawn will have his day. Played by, of course, the man who was born to play him:


(http://fictionalhonesty.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/thrawn1.png)

Meh, I think we have plenty of time til things get going. 

Rules aren't done yet and it didn't sound like they were going to be done for a bit.

/Just to be clear, that's not an insult at the hardworking people getting this stuff going.  I know it takes a lot.  Just trying to balance all the specs out, then combat rules that don't allow any group an obscene advantage, then trying to make planetary defense rules still work well enough that every planet isn't a pushover, but still conquerable.  It's a ton of balancing and the like.  To be honest, I'm more than fine with us even trying a dry run assault of a planet to make sure stuff works right. 
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Medivh on July 11, 2013, 07:59:10 AM
It might be good to see how some of the newer rules play out, in a mock, so people don't get bored.

Or maybe just have a battle going for fun, to prevent people from getting bored

Or, people can join one of the SLs ... just saying

Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on July 12, 2013, 02:18:44 AM
Medivh what character are you going to play in this?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Rinny on July 12, 2013, 04:00:16 PM
My family just left and my husband's dad and step-mother arrive tomorrow. One more week and then I can jump back in! Back to cleaning up the mess all these kids made!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on July 13, 2013, 09:17:47 PM
I am in the process of possibly getting a new job that would be a desk job during the day. Know what that means? More posting time during the day! (Particularly since it would be a Chief position)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on July 21, 2013, 04:20:09 PM
THIS JUST IN... I have received Round 3 picks from everyone!

Here is everyone's holdings! Congrats on the picks. Looks like we have quite the interesting geopolitical game ahead of us.

XCAL -- (Korriban) Byss, Druckenwell, Boz Pity
Hale -- (Coruscant) Corellia, Yavin IV, Bespin
Erasmar -- (Bastion) Kuat, Dantooine, Toprawa
Dementat -- (Mandalore) Telos, Onderon, Brentaal
Ranes -- (Eriadu) Sullust, Rendili, Hoth
Eidolon -- (Nal Hutta) Kessel, Vergesso, Honoghr
Gall -- (Bonadan) Mustafar, Sluis Van, Rhen Var
Javin -- (Wayland) Bandomeer, Contruum, Taris
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on July 21, 2013, 09:47:08 PM
This used to be a nice neighborhood to enter an asexual phase of hermaphroditic reproduction once every couple hundred years and gorge on every palpable vice in gluttonous proportion until those dirty Sith and Corporate rats moved in down the block!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on July 21, 2013, 10:20:29 PM
Is that it then?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on July 22, 2013, 10:06:15 AM
Hmm....interesting.  Sounds like you need some Rat poison Eidolon.... ;)

Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on July 23, 2013, 02:05:19 PM
Where are the rest of the CSA specs? Just curious lol.Fantastic work thus far!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on July 23, 2013, 03:40:53 PM
I'm generating the specs, faction by faction, and weighing in everybody's personal inputs for their tech requests. That's pretty much the last hurdle that needs to get jumped before we can talk about a launch date =)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on July 23, 2013, 06:19:07 PM
Quote from: RanesDsane on July 22, 2013, 10:06:15 AM
Sounds like you need some Rat poison Eidolon.... ;)

Preferably a wily ole one-eyed alley cat with an insatiable thirst for the hunt!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Erasmar on July 29, 2013, 03:34:01 PM
I just need to say that you have COMPLETELY RUINED my plan for wasting the rest of my afternoon at work by putting together the Empire's fleet, as I have only just noticed the general gameplay rules are gone and I cannot figure out my CPs and such. SHAME!

I am now forced to be a productive member of society. How do you sleep at night.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on July 30, 2013, 06:12:21 PM
I apologize for the delays. I've been on a business trip (which will last until this weekend), which has prevented me from finishing off the GCW pre-launch work. But for a rule of thumb regarding Command Points.... 1 KC (in cost) = 1 CP. If you want to kill time, plan on building at least a 5000 CP Main Fleet. We may start with more CPs than that, but not less.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: Erasmar on July 30, 2013, 07:52:12 PM
No apologies necessary. I was merely lamenting the loss of some prime procrastination.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: RanesDsane on July 31, 2013, 02:01:08 AM
Quote from: GCW Hale on July 30, 2013, 06:12:21 PM
I apologize for the delays. I've been on a business trip (which will last until this weekend), which has prevented me from finishing off the GCW pre-launch work. But for a rule of thumb regarding Command Points.... 1 KC (in cost) = 1 CP. If you want to kill time, plan on building at least a 5000 CP Main Fleet. We may start with more CPs than that, but not less.

How dare you let your real-life job get in the way of gaming!  What kind of priorities do you have?!?!  ;D
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: JavinTye on July 31, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Quote from: RanesDsane on July 31, 2013, 02:01:08 AM
Quote from: GCW Hale on July 30, 2013, 06:12:21 PM
I apologize for the delays. I've been on a business trip (which will last until this weekend), which has prevented me from finishing off the GCW pre-launch work. But for a rule of thumb regarding Command Points.... 1 KC (in cost) = 1 CP. If you want to kill time, plan on building at least a 5000 CP Main Fleet. We may start with more CPs than that, but not less.

How dare you let your real-life job get in the way of gaming!  What kind of priorities do you have?!?!  ;D

I still have like 3 more places to go in my Storyline before I even want this sim to start.

And I'm out of town right now. 

... And mostly non functional ...

So take your time on this =P
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on July 31, 2013, 04:00:07 PM
MUTINY!!!!

 . .aww, wait, we're taking the calm patient approach?  *grumble*

  Where's Al-Sisi when you need him!?  ;)
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: gallpizi on August 11, 2013, 10:51:44 PM
So, just got the paperback copy of the Han Solo and Corporate Authority Sourcebook in the mail. It's on y'all!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on August 21, 2013, 09:09:26 PM

Ok rule related question, just came up as I'm making my mock post. . .


I know we been using rule that a Destroyed unit is permitted to get off a final attack before it goes POOF.  Does this include a final movement or no?  If yes, I think it ought to be no.

Reason being it gives Caps a distinct advantage over Fighters/Aux.  With Fighters having to engage in Same location only, Caps get that extra range to their benefit in case of destruction.


Also, second topic of address/slight suggest. . .

  CSP engagement.  There is distrinction between Aux and SFs.  In principle it would seem more applicable for either to play the role of being able to occupy the other, at the same req ratio of 1:1 (be it Group to Group, Squad to Squad, or Group to Squad).  This gives slight more flexibility and also helps simplify a game concept by removing a special distinction of sorts.
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hoppus on August 21, 2013, 09:13:43 PM
I believe ALL units have a range of "same grid space" but I'll let Hale handle this....
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on August 21, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
clipped from Combat Simulator OP (original post). . .

Quote from: GCW Hale on July 11, 2013, 11:20:13 PM
6. All movement is 1 grid per turn. No diagonal movement is allowed. Capital Ships may fire at adjacent grids but SF and AUX may only attack targets in the same grid. Fleets must exit hyperspace in Deep Space Zones but can immediately move into the system afterwards.



thats why the Ender is about to be SPACE DUST!
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Hale on August 22, 2013, 10:47:28 AM
With the old space grid, capital ship weapon ranges of 1 made a lot of sense. But since we're looking at a truncated melee for space battles, "same grid weapon fire" might be more advisable, which is a good observation. This is something we may consider changing for the final rules set. Glad we're mocking it out now.

In a GCWII mock, we tried out the "no movement after getting destroyed" concept and it gave a distinct advantage to ships that had movement of 2 over movement of 1, because they could fire from one grid away, destroy their target, and then run 2 grid spaces... thus preventing the destroyed ship from being able to return fire.

However, since all movement has been normalized to 1, "no movement after getting destroyed" might be best.

I think that's fair?
Title: Re: OOC: GCW Episode III Pre-Launch Discussion
Post by: SWSF Eidolon on August 22, 2013, 11:51:49 AM
No Move after Destruction seems unarguably best approach.



Ranges I personally prefer the very slight variation we have right now.  Fighter/Aux same location.  Cap Ships 1.  Again it will give Cap Ships just a little bit of benefit and shape the way people form fleets and fight with little bit more variation.  Totally changes landscape of building a fleet when you start to look at higher UCRs of smaller capital vessels and such.

I recognize the difference the much smaller grid injects in to the dynamic however as opposed to the larger grid we'd been using.  A potential counter to this is to say that with respects to the Low Orbit ring, you must be in Lo Orbit to attack other Lo Orbits located units (works out great with LO as one grid location). Then in reality, the only "range" there is is in High Orbit between Cap Ships, and there's still only 1 potentially safe grid space on the map for you.