Star Wars Sim Forum: Roleplay, Simming and Fan Fiction
COMMUNITY => OOC Cantina => Topic started by: Medivh on December 15, 2017, 12:49:49 PM
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I figured I'd start:
I liked the movie. It wasn't the best for me, but maybe my expectations were too high. I enjoyed it. I will watch it again many times. But I have a few criticisms.
A few thoughts:
1) Team Episode 8 must have read the no longer canon Star Wars books.
The parallels between Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and Darth Cadeus/Jacen Solo are too much to be ignored.
- He kills family not because he hates them, but because he has to leave his past behind to become stronger
- He cares for someone, which causes conflict
- Rey plays the role of Jaina Solo, having a relationship with someone who she also must defeat, as in the books. jaina was the sword of the jedi, destined to kill Jacen.
- Luke Skywalker tricks Jacen Solo with - yes, that's right - projecting his image across the galaxy, in order to save others. Did the same thing here
- Luke regrets training Jacen; Luke regrets training Kylo Ren. Luke places himself in exile and is not heard from for a long time
- Jacen becomes the head bad guy after his teacher, Lumiya is killed. Kylo becomes head bad guy after Snoke is killed
- The light-whip, used by the red guards in the movie, was first used by Lumiya in the books
2) The movie doesn't seem to care about characters first introduced in Episode 7
A lot of mystery and build up about characters ends with rather quick deaths before they become important.
Most importantly, Captain Phasma and Supreme Leader Snoke. Both are presumed to be really important, but both really end up having very short roles. Phasma is unnecessary - it's just another storm trooper with a few more lines and a shiny suit. Why have the character if she is so expendable?
Same with Snoke. We presume him super strong, that he has an agenda, and a past and - who cares, he's dead?
3) The movie doesn't know what to do with main characters introduced in Episode 7
Finn spends the movie going on a mission that keeps him busy but literally accomplishes nothing. They go across the galaxy to find a splicer. They don't get that splicer, they get a different one. Who then betrays him. Was the first splicer important?
Poe is a fighter pilot who again, goes through a bunch of actions that get him in trouble with his superiors, but again, doesn't accomplish anything. There was a mutiny, he was stunned for his mutiny, and then ... ok, that's it.
The only characters that GROW in this movie are Rey and Kylo Ren. We seem them changes and develop as they interact with others and each other. I enjoyed every seen with either of them, and they made the movie good.
Same with Luke Skywalker. I liked how he showed (some) of what he could do at the end of the movie. I wish we could have had more lessons with him before he dies. I hope He becomes a Force-Ghost guide for Rey, so we see him again in the future.
Episode 9 was supposed to be about Leia, and we saw a preview of her power in 8. Obviously, with Carrie Fisher's death, that won't happen.
Finally, the whole making the good guys the underdogs with time running out was a little contrived. The Republic is officially gone, the Resistance/Rebellion is literally dying as the clock strikes down, because star destroyers are too slow to catch up to a cruiser that is running out of fuel. By the end of the movie, the falcon IS the entire resistance. Thousands died, but the three dozen left, that's all we need? Sure...
OK
Again, I loved Luke Skywalker. The way he played off of Rey, Chewbacca, R2D2, C3PO, Leia. I've always been a Luke fan, and was glad to see Mark Hamill as into the role as ever.
I even appreciated Yoda coming back.
Rey is fantastic, though we still don't know WHY she is as powerful and talented as she is. That was never explained. Remember, she beat Kylo Ren at the end of 7. And she faced against him in this one.
Kylo Ren was more enjoyable in this film than the last, mostly thanks to his interactions with Rey. I think Adam Driver has grown into the role more. Also, I like his fighting style, which is unique, in stance, aggressiveness.
I really loved the in memorium during the credits to Carrie Fisher.
Oh, and General Hux has to die.
Discuss.
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Saw it. Loved it. Here's some thoughts...
I though the explanation of Reys parents was a bit of a red herring. All that speculation to build up to the fact that they were drunk assholes who abandoned Her? No way.
Holdo. Now there's a girl after my own heart. I'm glad they finally showed a woman in power who can pull off a daring outfit...which goes to show that sexism is rampant. Just because a woman looks a certain way does not mean she isn't capable of greatness. Also, her sacrifice made the entire theatre gasp. Badass, girl. If you read the Leia: princess of alderaan like my nerd ass did, you saw how they met and became involved. I was hoping Holdo would play a future role but alas, not to be.
No backstory on Snoke?
I do wonder how they will handle Leia in the next chapter if they aren't using CGI (thankfully).
Overall, I felt invigorated once again and pleased they explored areas we haven't see before.
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The entire movie had a pace of Urgency from the first scene to the last which I enjoyed. I think Snokes demise without any deeper back story is just a tip of ice berg. Think back to how little we knew of Palpatine at the time, we didn't even know his name really when Vader throw him over the guard railing in DS2. All that you ever know about him is that he's this all powerful bad ass pulling a million puppet strings at once, and then he seems to miscalculate/put too much faith in his divinations, and his creation bites him back finally. Same with Snoke.
I enjoyed that scene a lot though. From the back building where Rey tells Kylo about her visions of him turning Light at the right moment, laced with Snoke revealing he created those visions but then Snoke speaking about a light saber igniting in his vision just before Reys saber/lukes 1st saber ignites and cuts him apart. I think his seemingly fast paced death wo much back fill is just in line with what we experienced from Emperor at time, in fact we knew we more about Snoke.
1) Was the Tracking Device purposefully made to look like a large Flux Capacitor?
2) Del Toros character was awesome until the very last turn which left me feeling sort of like wtf regarding his character purpose and use.
3) Holdo was ok, I didn't particularly find her personality for her position all that.. believable/engaging, something. Maybe its because she was dressed for a cheap ball imo. I'd rather have seen her dressed like one of the other female Resistance officers to give that stronger visual impression. Basically they dressed her like Leia in Bespin instead of Leia at Hoth to me I guess. Two very diff angles of her persona.
4) Chewie should heave eaten that Porg.
5) The evolution of Poe beyond simple a hot shot pilot was cool.
6) I think Reys background reveal is false. Luke says at least twice in movie once to Rey, once to Kylo, "Everything you just said is wrong". Snokes visions of the future are shown to be improperly interpreted as he mistook Kylos saber igniting and striking down Rey in his vision with Lukes old saber being ignited by Kylo to kill him. This movie showed potential for user error in force divination maybe. At least I hope, because otherwise, that is a DUD. Also we're still left with why was Falcon on Jakku and why do her foggy visions as a young girl imply more tie in still even in retrospect with Kylos words and her tears?
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At very end, the stable boy when he runs off and grabs a broom upon exiting a doorway, does he force pull the broom to his hand sorta seemlessly or just kick and grab it?
If he force pulls ,which i wasnt positive on or not, than i buy kylos pitch of reys heritage of being a random as those would tie together well to show all across the galaxy there are and will.always be glimmers of hope in the force
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But your critique proves my point...you expect a female resistance fighter to look a certain way but because she doesn't she doesn't seem believable in such a position. And that dress was spectacular, btw.
Eid- AAGGH! So sorry, I hit Modify instead of Quote again and realized after I'd saved and was like "wait, wheres her full response.." . APOLOGIES KAREN! :'( :-\
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I really wish they had put Leia on the Bridge of the Raddus and used her to take out the Supremacy. Not only would it have been a good way to hae her written out due to Carrier Fisher's death but also I feel like it would have given the sacrifice even more meaning than someone we just met this film.
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But your critique proves my point...you expect a female resistance fighter to look a certain way but because she doesn't she doesn't seem believable in such a position. And that dress was spectacular, btw.
I expect a Male Resistance fighter to look a certain way to, based on where they are and what they are doing. Not standing on the bridge of a warship in a Tuxedo or Cargo Shorts and flip flops when they pilot a flagship in to another. I had no problem with her character traits and use, just felt the costume was a bad choice.
To me it infers sort of the opposite, that a woman of power cant be presented in a non-sexualized form and expected to stand out. Rather than a proper outfit for her role like every other Resistance Officer besides Leia, shes given a figure (not much of one, no hips, theres your sexism! ;p) hugging gown with a exposed clavicle and covered neck. The purpose of the outfit is fashion expression/sexualized, not utility. Thats fine based on where shes from, but shes on a warship filling the role of Vice President of the Resistance here.
To me it'd have been more appropriate for her to be garbed in the same style as the female officer seated back and to the right of her. The young blonde girl with the buns who survived the shuttle massacre, the older woman to the lower right in pic #2 below. They had limited support roles, so the outfit was deemed fine for that. But for the more important Support Char of Holdo, they needed to set her apart style wise by giving her an outfit with superficial as the prime design trait. I don't think it's the blatant outright "sex sells", but its a little off in my eyes.
Do soldiers want to see their superior officers dressed like them, ready for action, or dressed like they've been chilling in the officers lounge all career and ready for some mid afternoon cocktails?
(https://as01.epimg.net/tikitakas/imagenes/2017/05/24/portada/1495644518_900517_1495644881_sumario_normal.jpg)
(https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Amilyn-Holdo-The-Last-Jedi-10182017-615x346.jpg)
Glad to have the stable boy broom force pull backed up because I wasn't sure but I wanted it to be!
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Saw the movie for the second time today. So I feel I have soaked it in enough to spill my beans.
What I loved:
1. Luke. They could have made him some all powerful hard ass but they didn't. They maintained flaws and in the end he found redemption for his mistakes. Mark Hamill played the role really well. Over all I was very disappointed with how TFA ended without Luke being involved but I have to say this was worth it. Really it was. With how he faded away staring up at the twin suns. For me? Perfect. I hope we get to see him as a force ghost in 9. Even if it ends up just being a line of ghosts before credits roll like Jedi. I really liked the dynamic of him trying to prevent the next Vader actually being a prime reason of doing so by creating Kylo.
2. Kylo. Seriously this character grew so much during this move and it lead the character to grow on me a whole lot in the process. More or less moved from an angry kid into someone that we understand the "why" a whole lot better. He has depth with flaws and strengths. Adam Driver really was able to pull off the angry teenager into without a better title at the moment "dark lord" of this trilogy. I would be lying if for a little while I didn't think he was going to end up going good half way though. But he had that moment with Ray like Anakin had that moment with Padme where he could have turned back but didn't. It is a parallel I will keep in the back of my mind because it shows it still can be walked back. Not sure they will (and who could be) but it will be in my mind when watching 9.
3. The force. I know this will be hit or miss with some people because it went to new places. But I think that is what it needed. Snokes ability to "link" or "bridge" minds. The ability to project ones self across the galaxy but at the cost of life. Also how Snoke saw exactly what Kylo was thinking but how it was in the wrong direction. I loved it. Always emotion the future is so its hard to determine right? For me the only almost crazy bit used with the force was the bit with Leia floating back to the ship. I feel it was one of two times they could have moved the character along to death due to the unfortunate passing of Carrie (the other being talked about above with being the pilot to ram the enemy ship).
4. Speaking of Snoke a lot there. I am happy he is gone. It was fun to try to guess the who and what with him and entertained me for, hell, a better part of a year. But I feel Kylo is going to be a whole lot better suited for the role and it will move away from the need of CGI characters (even though it was, again, done really well and a very deserving performance and tech used).
What I know will cause some "wtf" in the Star Wars community that didn't bother me, but hey, I noticed it too:
1. Some of the humor was forced. I think in most beats it started off good. When it was short and to the point it was good. But sometimes it went back and forth a little long and I could see where some people wouldn't like it. Wasn't a killer for me but, yeah, there was a few lines where I felt that didn't need to go as far as it did. I really felt the Luke humor was good and well placed. Just a grumpy old man with regrets sort of perspective humor for the audience. Droid humor was alright. Really most of it was alright. The only one that felt really strange was the Hux's humor. I mean in TFA he was pretty much giving us an Adolf Hitler send off speech to the Republic, destroyed countless worlds, and was a real rival to Kylo. Here he kind of felt like the butt of every joke and a push over. I do understand he is young and likely not as great as he is projected to be but, yeah, I can see where it was sometimes a little to 3 stooges if you know what I mean? It didn't make me cringe but I know for sure some people it will.
2. Leia floating back to the ship. Like I said above this one almost tipped me a bit. It certainly didn't ruin the move for me or anything. But I think a lot of it for me was getting to finally see her use the force and be more than just a normal person. But I noticed it. It certainly was a blip on my radar but at the end of the day I felt it was ok. But oh boy, I know some people are going to really not like it.
3. This movie takes places over a REALLY short span of time. Maybe a couple days max? This is mostly established by the escaping ships and the fuel supply (which is given direct timers at times). So the questions that are going to undoubtedly arise are the whole "Ray becomes a master Jedi in a weekend" type of things because this movie started pretty much the instant TFA ended, this move was only a few days tops, it really means that this trilogy has only been about a few weeks of in universe time maybe? Again, this really doesn't bother me a whole lot because I go for an entertaining movie, solid action, and a telling story that I don't try to poke holes into to much. But I know it will bother some.
What I didn't like:
1. Really only one bit. The casino planet part kind of felt forced into the movie and kind of felt like it put the movie on hold a bit to long. Maybe editing which is more a technical deal than a story flaw. Most SW movies have separate story's and the scene shifts between them in snips and eventually the cross paths and converge. This happened really well with the Rebel fleet escaping and Luke and Ray on the planet. Then Finn goes to the casino planet and the movie pretty much just tunnels on them with a few very short snips of the clock counting down back at the fleet. Now I will say once Finn and Rose get back into space the movie moves right back into the rotating story archs where it went between Ray's arch, the Rebel ships (eventually becomes the Poe arch really), and the Finn arch really well. Then of course they all come together masterfully at the end. Which is why I feel it is more an technical edit problem than a story driven one. It just dragged on a bit to much and didn't allow the story of the other archs to feel like they were continuing while it was going. At least from my perspective. But it is just a personal opinion.
So the big question:
Where would I rate it? Well Empire is my #1 and Jedi and New Hope can interchange pretty easily between 2 and 3. I think I would put Revenge of the Sith next although its really hard for me to get over some of the dialog and over use of CGI.. but the story was so impactful and delivered. Then I think this one gets slotted right behind it followed by TFA. Then R1. Then Phantom Menace. Then holding up dead last is Attack of the Clones because sand and other issues I won't go into. Of course this one is still pretty young in my mind and might move past Revenge of the Sith or down to FTA but I feel its pretty firmly in a spot or two where it will finally rest with the current slate of movies. It won't beat out the original 3 to me but it certainly ranks as the top if not one of the two none original trilogy movies to date.
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So the big question:
Where would I rate it? Well Empire is my #1 and Jedi and New Hope can interchange pretty easily between 2 and 3. I think I would put Revenge of the Sith next although its really hard for me to get over some of the dialog and over use of CGI.. but the story was so impactful and delivered. Then I think this one gets slotted right behind it followed by TFA. Then R1. Then Phantom Menace. Then holding up dead last is Attack of the Clones because sand and other issues I won't go into. Of course this one is still pretty young in my mind and might move past Revenge of the Sith or down to FTA but I feel its pretty firmly in a spot or two where it will finally rest with the current slate of movies. It won't beat out the original 3 to me but it certainly ranks as the top if not one of the two none original trilogy movies to date.
Out of Non OT Movies, I put it at #1. Before that R1, and before that Ep III.
ESB forever #1.
I'm confident Solo is going to supplant TLJ though.
Re: Your poke at the Casino planet. I liked the world and its make up! I just was slightly thrown by the whole time/fuel consumption cocnepts between the Flagship and the Shuttle and what not.
Re: Time for Rey to master force. With so much scene change back and forth its easy to lose the timing for me and get lost in it.
But to try and be (sl)ack-ademic about it, at some point since Rey left the Resistance Base on DQar with Chewie and Falcon, the Resistance migrated to the flagship and a whole lot happened, so shes been there for who knows how long. The only time I think we have to consider the timelines/scenes crossing is from the first time she sees Kylo like he's in front of her. Prior to that, her time on the Island world with Luke is pretty fluid and probably a little while in terms of how it plugs in to the Flagship Chase timing.
But I've only seen it the once yet so some of it is still this whole jumble of geek-gasms for me. =)
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Out of Non OT Movies, I put it at #1. Before that R1, and before that Ep III.
ESB forever #1.
I'm confident Solo is going to supplant TLJ though.
Re: Your poke at the Casino planet. I liked the world and its make up! I just was slightly thrown by the whole time/fuel consumption cocnepts between the Flagship and the Shuttle and what not.
Re: Time for Rey to master force. With so much scene change back and forth its easy to lose the timing for me and get lost in it.
But to try and be (sl)ack-ademic about it, at some point since Rey left the Resistance Base on DQar with Chewie and Falcon, the Resistance migrated to the flagship and a whole lot happened, so shes been there for who knows how long. The only time I think we have to consider the timelines/scenes crossing is from the first time she sees Kylo like he's in front of her. Prior to that, her time on the Island world with Luke is pretty fluid and probably a little while in terms of how it plugs in to the Flagship Chase timing.
But I've only seen it the once yet so some of it is still this whole jumble of geek-gasms for me. =)
For sure. I really think the look of the Casino planet was great. I do understand why they went there. It just tunneled a little to much in my opinion. It might grow on me though. Just both times in my views it stuck out to me as very forced.
The time thing, again, really didn't and doesn't bother me. But I know for a fact some people are going to be pulling the "mary sue" card a lot here. I mean truth be told I think Snoke describe it best even if you don't want to try to explain the time itself "a powerful darkness rises and an equally powerful light will rise to face it" and let us be honest Luke didn't spend 10 years with Yoda either. I think it is something a lot of people use that are purposely looking for holes rather than just enjoying a movie do but, hey, I can see where they were coming for if that is what I bought my popcorn for. It just isn't because hell I just love SW.
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OVERALL
Really enjoyed this film. I'm sure repeated viewings will improve my taste of it, as it did with TFA (which I really disliked and still do to some extent). I broke down my comments into Applause and Criticism.
APPLAUSE!
a. I was deeply concerned for the plot of this movie (as in, wondering if it was just going to rip off Empire Strikes Back), but alas, the overall story did not go as I thought it was going to go. Every single character aside from Leia acted impulsively (including Luke), which contributed to the overall pace of the film (for better or for worse).
b. Mon Calamari Cruiser hyperspace ram vs Super Star Destroyer = lots of people in the audience going "DAMN!" and "OH SHIT!" That scene was INsane.
c. Loved the development of Kylo and Rey.
d. "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope." The feels.
e. Talk about the ultimate Jedi Mind Trick!
CRITICISM
a. Laura Dern and Benicio Del Toro were overused as acting talent and underused as characters. You don't need that much star power for the roles they played. I did not agree with Del Toro's acting choices either... the stuttering came across as too quirky.
b. I don't buy Kylo's story of Rey's parents being drunk spacers for one second. She's special. And we know it. A pity they're going to leave us dangling AGAIN for answers.
c. Snoke. Once again the nefarious JJ Abrams Mystery Box has struck again. All those YouTube speculation videos are now just utter garbage that fueled the hype train (a key goal of the Mystery Box). If there was any doubt that this is not a George Lucas movie, Snoke proves it.
d. Resistance/Rebellion/whatever you want to call them, suck at life.
e. Leia should've made the sacrificial hyper-ram. They should've given Carrie her warrior-princess exit. Also as some have said: why introduce Laura Dern's character just to have her be thrown away? Alternatively, they could've given Ackbar a chance to do this as well, saying something gangster to the effect of "who's trapped now bitch?" in a savage mic drop moment.
f. The various unaccounted force ghosts are massive elephants in the room. If Yoda, why not Obi-Wan? Or Anakin? One visit from Anakin's ghost would've stopped Kylo/Ben in his tracks, so the reason this hasn't happened demands an explanation if its logically possible.
EPISODE IX PREDICTIONS
a. They are going to fast-forward the timeline. The in-film clock hasn't actually progressed a whole lot. So it's the only way they can make sense of a few dozen people being the spark if Episode IX is set much further in the future. The broomstick kid I think is symbolic - he represents the next generation of Rebel that will grow up to fight the First Order.
b. I don't presume they'll end this at IX. There's too much to account for. Get ready for Epi$ode X folks.
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d. "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope." The feels.
Aw hell yeah, warm sensations in that moment. As great of a movie as it was R2 still had the best line.
b. I don't buy Kylo's story of Rey's parents being drunk spacers for one second. She's special. And we know it. A pity they're going to leave us dangling AGAIN for answers.
I hope its BS. Everyones visions seem to be four degrees off in this movie.
e. Leia should've made the sacrificial hyper-ram. They should've given Carrie her warrior-princess exit. Also as some have said: why introduce Laura Dern's character just to have her be thrown away? Alternatively, they could've given Ackbar a chance to do this as well, saying something gangster to the effect of "who's trapped now bitch?" in a savage mic drop moment.
If Leia piloted that'd be great finale for her, fantastic even. Youd imagine that was pitched but Disney rejected perhaps a suicidal gesture? Who would fly through space then?
This reminds me, I thought for a minute Finn would really kamikaze that Demi Culvern. I can't believe I went for that even for a second.
f. The various unaccounted force ghosts are massive elephants in the room. If Yoda, why not Obi-Wan? Or Anakin? One visit from Anakin's ghost would've stopped Kylo/Ben in his tracks, so the reason this hasn't happened demands an explanation if its logically possible.
I thought Force Ghosts only appeared as apparitions of the light, only light jedi become force ghosts and only light jedi can see/experience them? Anakin would have not been force ghost if he had not been turned before dying was my thought. No Vader force ghosts, No palp force ghosts, no Snoke force ghosts. Maybe Sith were only able to be captured in some other element, ie trapped in holocrons as spirits to inhabit others, while jedi can manifest as their own selves to those whom they connected?
Favorite New Alien Species: The frog-nuns/stone masons!
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As for the whole Holdo thing, my wife and I have mixed feelings about it. I think it is a bit odd that in Rogue One, they de-femenized Jyn Erso and make her character's clothing to be more utilitarian in nature. Just read the Glamour magazine interview with Felicity Jones (https://www.glamour.com/story/felicity-jones-glamour-january-cover-interview). Or, you can just read the relevant selection here I pulled (out of context):
GLAMOUR: She does have that Han Solo–esque belt! Gwendoline Christie, who played the first female Star Wars villain in The Force Awakens, said she loved how her character’s costume was sort of defeminized, utilitarian. Was yours always going to be the same way, or did you have to push back against attempts to sex it up?
FJ: Not for a second. Everyone wanted to create a character that was not in any way objectified. We didn’t want to sexualize Jyn.
GLAMOUR: So there’s no moment where Jyn is suddenly a prisoner in a gold bikini.
FJ: No way. [Laughs.] We don’t even see Jyn’s arms! That’s not her priority. She’s a survivor, and she has a mission to complete.
GLAMOUR: That’s a big deal to me, as somebody who grew up on the early films—that there’s not an eye candy moment for teenage boys to jerk off to.
FJ: Gareth said very early on, “I want guys to watch it and be like, ‘I want to be Jyn!’” A female friend of mine said, “I love that Jyn looks how we look, with trousers and a long-sleeved top.” We aren’t in hot pants. When do women walk around wearing hot pants?
GLAMOUR: Rarely. In the first big trailer, five of the 10 lines of dialogue are spoken by women, suggesting that the year’s biggest tentpole passes the Bechdel test [which rates films based on whether two female characters talk to each other about something other than a man]. Were your feminist needs met by this movie?
FJ: I’ve always been a feminist, and what I love in my work is being able to explore a full-sided woman and not patronize her. Particularly with Jyn, it’s such a rare opportunity to be able to play a female who’s not just thinking about [romantic] relationships.
Now, here's some Dern segments from a Vanity Fair article (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women) titled: "Star Wars: The Last Jedi Offers the Harsh Condemnation of Mansplaining We Need in 2017 - An eerily perfect installment for the post-Trump era."
Speaking about her character’s stylish-yet-firm leadership, Dern told Vanity Fair: “[Rian is] saying something that’s been a true challenge in feminism. Are we going to lead and be who we are as women in our femininity? Or are we going to dress up in a boy’s clothes to do the boy’s job? I think we’re waking up to what we want feminism to look like.”
This is why here in The Last Jedi, it seems like some flip-flopping is happening. "No, women can be sexualized. Older women with power at that... because FEMINISM!" I feel like it's a battle that can't be won. Critique Holdo's dress for being too sexy for war, and you're guilty of sexism. Critique Jyn Erso for not being sexy enough, and you're guilty of sexism. So, I dunno. I think it's best just to take the whole saga's portrayal of women writ large. They can be fierce, diplomatic, sexy, pin-uppable, warriors, rational, etc. It's the spectrum that matters at the end of the day.
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What I learned tonite..
Billie Lourd, Carrie Fishers daughter. I guess I should read more celeb stuff and I'd know these things..
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/10/00/2F3864AF00000578-3353544-image-a-11_1449706252038.jpg)
Lieutenant Connix. She was in TFA to I am now noticing.
Rose Tico.
(https://lrmonline.com/file/2017/11/tvnxzykmmtu7tffcvqja.png)
Awesome character. Her passion for the Resistance was moving, seems like a great actress (Kelly Tran). Back to open bombing scene from her sister, was awesome and incredible scene. Definite borrowed from WWII Bomber movies- Memphis Belle in space.
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That's what i mean...desexualize or sexualize you can't really win. Let women be who they are...not what people think they should be. This is why I like Holdo. She's a leader who doesn't compromise her femininity or believe she has to in order to lead. But Poe doesn't take her seriously because of this and its a classic case of underestimation that happens so often of women in power. For me, I connected with this.
And yes, Leia and Amidala will always rule for me and with Jyn, Rose, Rey, and Connix it shows women in various positions and motivations. There were quite a few female pilots as well I noticed so overall I think they are doing better in the star wars galaxy with representation that doesn't revolve solely around a male love interest. That's a positive message to the girls out there the same way Leia and Amidala were to me in my childhood and late adolescence.
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Saw 2nd time this morning. Able to digest so much more, making it of course all the more incredible overall.
Lt Connix/Billie Lourd has a lot more inclusive of a role than I had initially retained. I hope she ends up being featured heavily again in Ep IX with grown importance as Resistance officer, perhaps leadership. She portrays a focused strong and capable character here from evacuation of DQar in opening to partaking in Poes mutiny to surviving on Crait and leaving with the Resistance Remnants on the Falcon. You also see her being directly engaged by General Organa at a couple points, giving their characters that familiar link to maybe to help later expand Connix's importance and role through her close link to General Organa.
Some time relative notices..
When Rey is just telling Luke the whole story of whats happening early on, she says the First Order will have taken over the major systems within Weeks.
When the Shuttle with Finn and Rose leaves the flagship for Canto Bight Casino, Flagship has 18hrs of fuel left.
Other notices...
Snoke actively linked Kylo and Reys minds with the force to enable them to see one another like they were. Snoke got killed. At the very end when shes boarding Falcon to leave salt mine planet Crait and Kylo is in the Resistance base picking up the gold dice that fade away, they see each other again. So the bridge Snoke created remains in tact. Their relationship then and epxerience/knowledge of one another has the cause to consistently deepen from now to opening starcrawl of Ep IX even being away from one another. The vibe in the one scene where they were seeing each other and she reacted uncomfortably to Ben/Kylo being shirtless was odd.
When Luke projects himself on to Crait, he has his old blue saber (anakins). In the flashback visions of pre-kylo, he has the green saber. Presumably, he destroyed the green saber when he exiled himself. Rey brings the Blue saber back to him. Rey and Kylo/Ben break the blue saber. Luke projects himself on to Crait and uses the blue saber. Luke lost the Blue saber when his hand gets cut off on Bespin. Maz ends up with it. Anyone know how? Kylo/Ben did not pick up note diff color saber even though he just helped break it in the throne room. The last time he saw luke would have been with the green blade standing over him. Maybe I making too much of it but rubs me as strange as well.
The books on the jedi teachings from lukes island inside the tree that yoda set aflame. When on the Falcon at very end Finn pulls out a blanket from a drawer on the ship and covers Rose in it. I think those books are in that drawer for a quick glimpse.
Nods...
Luke winks at 3PO again in the base on Crait when he sees him. Pretty sure he winks at him in every movie they see one another?
Luke tells Ben, "See you around kid," a la Han to a much younger Luke.
Holdo...
Honestly, I liked her less. Maybe you prejudiced me Karen ;p But Dern's performance of her all together left me wanting this time. It wasn't even about the drapery she had on. If she lived her and Poe would have had some serious eventual sexual tension. He makes a comment about her appearance and then she baits his testosterone/ego when he first speaks privately to her, then she fondly swoons over his unconscious body as they are evac-ing to the shuttles.
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Overall loved it. Kyli and rey were fantastic and sonwas luke. The force and finally having imperfect jedi and sith with flaws and and depth is so awesome. They could make a millin movies just with jefi and sith if handled with nuance like this and id go to every one. Was first new sw movie i could see in theater! I fucking loced it!
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Overall loved it. Kyli and rey were fantastic and sonwas luke. The force and finally having imperfect jedi and sith with flaws and and depth is so awesome. They could make a millin movies just with jefi and sith if handled with nuance like this and id go to every one. Was first new sw movie i could see in theater! I fucking loced it!
I agree with the flaws bit. It made all of the characters feel a lot more real. It was one of my favorite movies since the first 3. Apparently a lot of people hate it because Snoke and Rays parents were god mode fan therories but whatever right. I go to watch movies on their own merit and not what I hype it up to be for a couple of years.
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I hit the wrong buttons!!
I accidentally deleted a post of yours Hop. Meant to "Quote" not "Modify" (which led to deleting it inadvertently). Anyway, I wanted to respond to your points one by one. Here they are.
1. Finn arc was shit. The Casino world, the Rose character was just too soft and dreamy for my liking. Rip all of their scenes out and you have a normal length movie that is much tighter. They would have been better off sending him off on some other errand, and letting his whereabouts tie into the next flick somehow.
Agree. Many critics have made that observation as well. Sub-plots and side-quests CAN work in a story, but they need to have some payoff. There was zero development, zero success, and zero impact on the main story with Finn and Rose. In turned into a Social Justice commentary, and reversed the politics of the military-industrial complex of prequels (the idea that the Clone Wars was between corporate war machines rather than governments). Honestly, I'd liked Rose up until that point. In fact, when Finn was making the suicide run against the Siege Cannon, it would have been epic if Rose bumped him away to take his place, and as she clutched her medallion saying "this is for you Paige!" (her sister the bomber). Obviously Vice Admiral Holdo's suicide run would've inspired Rose to do something similar, so it's not that much of stretch.
2. I was okay with Snoke dying, mostly because the build up of Kylo/Rey was just awesome. Really love Rey and I no longer hate Kylo after thinking him dreadful in the #1, i guess part of that was having snoke point out how much of a bitch he was with his stupid mask etc and then him responding by being tougher/taking his own step. I wish they would have a do-over on the first film and make a better version of it sans Starkiller Base and based entirely on trying to get the map to skywalker.
I'm convinced that The Last Jedi should have been adapted for Episode VII, and The Force Awakens adapted for Episode VIII. The stories work way better that way, because The Last Jedi utterly demolished everything that ever took place in Saga prior. The ending of The Last Jedi would've also worked leading into The Force Awakens... the Resistance is reduced to the Millennium Falcon more or less, and spends 2 years running around the galaxy (re)building from scratch so they can destroy Starkiller Base.
3. Luke was awesome. Just great. He plays it a little heavy at times but then thats the Luke I know from the original trilogy. The R2 reunite and "Help me obi-wan kenobi" bit was just fantastic nod to the classic trilogy. Really great all around and loved the dual sunset dematerialization!
Agreed. It's fairly clear he's going to be Force Ghosting in Episode IX. He will probably haunt and taunt Kylo into madness.
4. Starships were really boring. Hated the bombers. HATED the bombers and that entire scene. HATED the big guns on snoke's ship lobbing energy as if there is some sort of gravity in space to give them that sort of rise-and-fall arc. But whatever.
The physics of this trilogy are really weird. We all know this is science fiction and we can suspend disbelief, but at least with Episodes I-VI, gravity made sense. Something that has been bugging me since The Force Awakens is this particular aerial movement called the Herbst maneuver (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbst_maneuver), which requires drag, stalling, manipulating flaps, and vectoring thrust to produce a "J-turn" --- things starships quite frankly aren't capable of. Another way to describe the Herbst maneuver in terms of automobiles is "drifting."
5. I liked the admiral lady and how she handled the man-splaining. I thought the non-military dress for an admiral was weird though. but then leia is a general so whateva.
As a US Navy veteran... I'm really torn with how they handled that scene. (1) Yes, as a leader you need to assert your place in the chain of command, but (2) you also need to explain your course of action as the commanding officer in order to maintain good order and discipline, so (3) you can prevent dissent and preserve your integrity/authority. It just goes to show that the Resistance sucks at life. They didn't act like professionals. They acted like ideologues with guns. No wonder everyone is suicidal.
6. Just want to see more of Kylo and Rey now. The force is so much more interesting with these two, flawed, more interesting people. I really love Rey, don' t know why exactly but her character works fantastically with me. Sweet, hard working, determined, principled, unafraid, yet fragile, damaged, etc... just love her.
Definitely.
I dont know if im just overtired and have a lot of shit going on in my life but i almost teared up like 3 times watching this and was like WTF are you doing dude? hah!
Grow some balls wussy.
;-)
Anyway, first time I've come out of a movie thinkg "I just had FUN. That was FUN." The settings were really nicely done and some of that little kid in me came to life and lived inside the movie for a couple hours =)
Agreed. I genuinely enjoyed the movie DESPITE my critical eye. I think Rian Johnson will be out for Episode IX however. The Finn-Rose subplot was a huge creative risk, and it did not payoff. That sort of thing is on the director.
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agree with everything especially order of the movies
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I hadn't thought about reversing the movies, but I have to agree. Thought you'd perhaps would have to take like the first half of TFA and tack it on to the front of TLJ so we know the characters enough.
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ONE YEAR LATER....
How are we feeling about TLJ fam?
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Dern still sucks as Holdo. Leia in space is like lets hurry up and get through this part for me.
But love the movie all in all! Almost got a TLJ poster yesterday actually but held off on account of enough to frame as is.
Rose is best character in it for me. The over arching theme that she and the stable kids anchor is some of whats most appealing to me I think.
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I'm still pissed at Rian Johnson.
Somebody asked me recently how I thought the movie could be "more Star Warsy" I said:
--Some kind of Top Gun-flavored starfighter dogfight between Kylo and Poe would've been awesome. Obviously that didn't happen because Kylo bombed the hangar bay. It would have been nice to see Kylo run away because he could not defeat Poe, as opposed to simply being out of support range from the First Order fleet.
--Lando. Imagine if it was Lando in that jail cell instead of Benecio Del Toro!! This would have been not only a nod to the Solo movie, but would've reinforced Lando's criminality also.
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Mad at JJ for being in on everything the whole time and not doing anything about it. Thank you for the Force Awakens, but it's time for you to go back to Star Trek. Leave Star Wars alone.
I know JJ's Episode IX will be good, but that's the whole point. Their whole plan from the beginning was to take JJ off of Episode VIII so they could make radical changes to Star Wars and then bring JJ back for the finale after the changes are done and have another Force Awakens to calm people down.
TLJ is visually impressive and I like seeing someone that looks like Luke on screen again, but the damage to character of Luke Skywalker, to the Jedi religion, to the tone of Star Wars, etc. is unforgiveable.
I'm buying EU books only.
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Bullshit, Holdo was fabulous and that hyperspace destruction scene still gives me chills.
Once you realize they will always capitalize on beloved properties at the expense of your fandom or nostalgia the less personally you'll take it. Studio's don't care when they know damn well you are going to shell out money to see it anyway, even if it's just to bitch about it later.
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Benecios betrayal was unforgiveable i think for sure. I guess im most pissed.becsause I was.in to him until then. Lando would have been interesting and a great fit.
Jedi religion I dunno. How much worse can you get than Midichlorian?
Im put off by Lukes demise but Obi, Yoda,etc all sarcificed in degrees and then vanishesld and became "more powerful than you can imagine". Similar fashion for Luke? How pissed were.people when Obi just stopped.fighting vader at the time?
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Midichlorians were also a disgrace. Just because George did it doesn't mean it's ok for Disney to.
As for shelling out, I actually don't. I shelled out for TFA (saw it how many times??) but only saw Solo once in theaters because that guy is not Han Solo, no matter what they say.
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Of all the shit I spend my half earned money on SW tickets are least of my buyers regret. Im never left wondering how I could have better spent $10-12 in that situation, no matter how bad Dern sucks. ;D
Kathleen Kennedy still has a lot of final input. Dave Filoni is knighted and a great creator.
Opening Bombing scene was still incredible and that moment of victory before having the rug pulled and crashing in to despair was a great edge of seat for next hour n half trick that i go for every time
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Han Solo isn't Han Solo. Luke Skywalker isn't Luke Skywalker. Luke and Yoda burn ancient Jedi books. Awesome bombing scenes don't make up for things like that. Ryan Johnson and Chuck Wendig already got dropped. Time for the real problem named Kathleen Kennedy to go too
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A movie I liked over all. But has about 3 personal (for me) cringe moments that I almost just have to fast forward though to get past or I just stop watching the movie. A lot of my problem with TLJ is actually how the fan base was trolled and treated by Johnson post release. I understand they were giving him a LOT of crap but his response was insanely poor. I think when you get into SW movies you just have to accept A LOT of people are going to give you shit because it is to large of a fan base that spans a few generations now to actually satisfy 100% of the time. Just take your lumps and don't stoop to the same level as internet trolls giving you hell.
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Re: Kathleen Kennedy
BWAHT? She produced ET, Jurassic Park and Schindlers List dude. =P Granted I don't forgive her for Dern in any of it, BUT
Fandom of every cult saga forever critiques every subsequent release from the original on. Phantom Menace, Attack, Rise, TFA, R1, TLJ, SOLO. For various reasons they are all easily called out and bring continuity in to question. Come on, if we're talking nostalgia, after ROTJ, what matters? None of them. But if we're talking just carrying on the universe and cinematic saga, they're all great.
What were you expecting a young harrison? Would Indian Jones have been cool with Tom Selleck? Hell the F no.
It's a movie franchise above all else. If I was 10yrs older how bad would I have felt betrayed by the cute and cuddly ewoks instead of a wing of my chill room and brain dedicated to them? They were gonna eat people yo! Probably already did a few. I bet they had recipes in mind.
I mean I can't remember not knowing how the original trilogy all went while seeing any. What happened from ANH to ESB to ROTJ was never a mystery to me that I remember because was too young when first exposed and saturated with it, but had I known the incredible dark ending of ESB going in to ROTJ and having no idea what was coming, to see the ewoks be the balance tipper? I'd probably have become a Trekkie right there. I bet thats what happened to most of the older ones actually. ;p
Luke and Yoda didn't burn the books, Luke was distraught by it, Yoda gave him some riddles as usual, Rey saved them they're in the bottom bunk bed drawer on the Falcon. Yoda didn't have any books in his hut. Ben Kenobi had no books.
I didn't see Rians trolling or reactions to fan critiques or anything. I'm pretty disinterested in an individual creators personality, penchants or short comings unless they're some sort of really terrible. If you let anyone talk for too long they're bound to say something off putting, especially if you're assailing their artistic creation.
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I didn't see Rians trolling or reactions to fan critiques or anything. I'm pretty disinterested in an individual creators personality, penchants or short comings unless they're some sort of really terrible. If you let anyone talk for too long they're bound to say something off putting, especially if you're assailing their artistic creation.
His twitter was pretty bad. He directly targeted many YouTube voices. Some of which were actually not that critical compared to the bandwagon haters that came out of the woodwork. It was bad enough he deleted all the tweets which is pretty much internet for "I did wrong but am not really man enough to say anything about it". I get it a lot of people went way to far with it. Like I said I think it was an alright movie with a few flaws. Some people thought it was the end of civilization. I get how those people can get under your skin by constantly bombarding you on something like twitter. But if you cannot take the heat get out the kitchen. I get hate on by people all the time at work and I do not retaliate at them directly and openly. He did. In a mostly sarcastic and rude way. Claim some people were women haters, that they were the products of toxic masculinity, and brought a lot of people into identity politics for honestly no reason other than to soap box. Look, I do not care if people agree or disagree with these things. Just odd when a director goes there to his critics and then deletes the tweets and it slips below the radar. It happened. I don't hate the guy for it but I won't pretend that its ok to go there. He might not have earned all the hate coming his way from the movie but he earned a lot of it post production and release.
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Yeah what's messed up is that he's on the record for describing his philosophy of movie making as being controversial for the sake of being controversial - that he would prefer to have a movie that stokes partisanship in its fans. A bunch of fans grumbling is better than no fans talking at all, I guess. As we say in the Navy, "a bitching sailor is a happy sailor." The problem is that he seems generally incapable of taking the criticism in stride, as if he's thinking to himself "I produced a masterful piece of art. So fuhk you for not liking it." Whereas I'm just sitting there like... "wait, you're the guy who wants to be controversial right? Take your lumps and GTFO."
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Actually you can read in Complex magainze that JJ Abrams said fans who dislike TLJ are threatened by women as well. And theres extensive write ups on TLJ by many seeming bedroom critic types specifically titled around Toxic Masculinity. Are we gonna crap on him for being a touchy artistic type now to? ;p Just sayin, keep in mind the class we're dealing with after all, it's directors and podcasting fanboys. The first I only give a shit about artistic material the second I don't give a shit at all.
I see it all about the same as a guy who makes a reaction podcast to begin with. I'm just confused by the outrage. You shit on someones jewel, they got butt hurt and fired back at you, and because ones famous and ones not there's delineation? Seems like a mostly self contained stressball.
Whatevs. Im a neolithic simpleton. When I hear about a director, entertainer or sports figure embroiled in some shit if it's not a murder, sex crime or against a dog, I dont get emotionally invested. ;D
Im a long time Detroit Lions fan so I've perfected the practice.
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Yes. JJ needs to go.
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JJ isn't much better if not worse. But putting them in the same boat is pretty much agreeing that both are a problem and not really a solution.