Poll

In all seriousness, do you want to...

play a combat-oriented game for GCWIII?
4 (66.7%)
OR an SL-driven game using the GCWIII sandbox?
2 (33.3%)
OR an SL-driven game, where units are provided free of charge but major battles are decided via some combat-oriented mechanism?
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!  (Read 178666 times)

Offline SWSF Hale

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GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« on: September 20, 2013, 04:39:57 PM »
GCW Combat v3.0

At the heart of this system is simplicity and familiarity. I'm using the same game mechanics that any tabletop board game would use as well as other features that the Star Wars TCG also used to create a smoother and higher functioning combat model that is bound to be more fun than burdensome.

Behold, the Hexagrid:


"X marks the spot", which could be either the Planet itself or the Capitol, since this grid could in theory be used for both Space and Ground battles. Red Zones are where opposing forces will either exit hyperspace or land troops, while Blue Zones are where home defense forces can position themselves.

Okay, now what?

ORDER OF BATTLE
All players must follow this order of battle to a tee. Based on the observations from the mock, it seems that in a desire to give players bigger fleets, we've invariably created a new demon: length of the battle. In order to reduce battle length, I propose we all strictly follow this order of battle:

1. Deploy Phase --> Attackers exits hyperspace. Reinforcements are called in. Defender posts locations.
2. Maneuver Phase --> Attackers can move their units around, move into Low Orbit, create Formations, etc. Reinforcements exit hyperspace in the Red Zones.
3. Battle Phase --> Attackers shoot first, Defenders bat last.
4. Damage Phase --> Destroyed units are cleared out.
5. Power Phase --> The winner is chosen by calculating total Power. Loser must retreat from Space, and cannot return until the Logistics Phase (the final phase) is over.
6. Siege Phase --> If the attacker won, then he can reposition his units in Low Orbit to enforce a blockade. Grid spaces are held by exerting Power over it. During this phase, orbital bombardments and troop landings also occur.
7. Assault Phase --> Invasion forces land troops and begin assault.
8. Casualty Phase --> Killed units are removed.
9. Victory Phase --> Invasion forces can win if any of the following conditions are met: "Conquest" (the Capitol is cleared of defending forces), "Domination" (your total Power is more than triple the defender's), or "Surrender" (defending forces can surrender only after an Assault has taken place).
10. Logistics Phase --> After the battle is over, it takes 3 days for the system to convert to the winner's full control. During this phase, new system defenses can be brought in to solidify control. After this phase is over, the system is open again for movement and future battles.

Okay, so the Order of Battle is pretty cut and dry. There are no time limits, rather as soon as a phase is completed, players can move onto the next phase at their convenience. We can get away with this because there are only two combat posts you really need to concern yourself with: Space Battle and Ground Assault.

Below is a sample spec listing. I'm taking the familiar GCW specs but replacing know features with Attack Rating and Durability. Attack Rating is the total damage output of a starship multiplied by x4. Durability is Shields + Armor. That's it! No more Hull, no more Systems. Starfighters and Aux get similar treatment. Their attack ratings are their damage outputs x2.

ISD
Attack Rating: 4320
Durability: 4800
UCR: 3
Docking Bay: 150m
Tractor Beams: 1000m
Unit Capacity:
6 TIE Squadrons
6 AUX Groups
10 Landing Barges
1000 Infantry Squads
20 GAV Groups
Special Features:
Dual Shield Domes -- Can be individually targeted by SF and AUX (DUR:120/UCR: 3, each). If destroyed, the ISD suffers a -240 Durability hit.
Battlefield Dominance -- During the Power Phase, this unit may add its Durability to its Attack Rating when calculating total Power.

VSD
Attack Rating: 3840
Durability: 2700
UCR: 3
Docking Bay: 100m
Tractor Beams: 500m
Unit Capacity:
2 TIE Squadrons
2 AUX Groups
2 Landing Barges
200 Infantry Squads
4 GAV Groups
Special Features:
Assault Bombardment -- 50% of this unit's Attack Rating can be applied towards Orbital Bombardment; the other 50% is applied when calculating total Ground Power.

CRAK
Attack Rating: 800
Durability: 1050
UCR: 6
Docking Bay: 12 External Racks
Tractor Beams: 200m
Unit Capacity:
1 TIE Squadron
Special Features:
Flank Position -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may be assigned to a Star Destroyer for defensive purposes. If so, any attacks made upon that Star Destroyer must first be made on this unit. (Restrictions: No more than 2 Carracks can be assigned to any 1 Star Destroyer).


TIE Fighter Squadron
Attack Rating: 96
Durability: 72
UCR: 8
Special Features:
TIE Swarm -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may form up with other TIE Squadrons and combine its Attack Rating and Durability.
Point Defense -- If assigned to CSP, this unit gets +2 UCR and adds its Attack Rating to its Durability.

TIE Bomber Squadron
Attack Rating: 240
Durability: 144
UCR: 6
Hyperdrive: None
Special Features:
Bombing Run -- This unit gets a bonus attack during the Siege Phase.

TIE Interceptor Squadron
Attack Rating: 192
Durability: 120
UCR: 10
Hyperdrive: None
Special Features:
First Strike -- This unit gets a bonus attack during the Maneuver Phase. If this ability is utilized, this unit may not be assigned to CSP.
Point Defense -- If assigned to CSP, this unit gets +2 UCR and adds its Attack Rating to its Durability.

TIE Avenger Squadron
Attack Rating: 288
Durability: 240
UCR: 9
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
Space Superiority Fighter -- This unit's Attack Rating can be applied when calculating total Space Power.



MC-80
Attack Rating: 2704
Durability: 4550
UCR: 3
Docking Bay: 100m
Tractor Beams: 500m
Unit Capacity:
4 Heavy SF Squadrons
4 AUX Groups
3 Medium Transports
300 Infantry Squads
6 GAV Groups
Special Features:
Mon Calamari Shield Boost -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may transfer any amount of its Attack Rating to its Durability.

RAF
Attack Rating: 2400
Durability: 1800
UCR: 4
Docking Bay: 6 Auxiliary Racks
Tractor Beams: None
Unit Capacity:
1 AUX Group
Special Features:
Assault Formation -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may lower its UCR by -1 and its base Durability by -10%, in order to increase its base Attack Rating by +10%.

NEB
Attack Rating: 696
Durability: 900
UCR: 5
Docking Bay: 50m
Tractor Beams: 200m
Unit Capacity:
2 SF Squadrons
2 AUX Groups
Special Features:
Escort Operations -- When calculating total Space Power, this unit adds its Durability.

CORV
Attack Rating: 240
Durability: 525
UCR: 7
Docking Bay: None
Tractor Beam: 100m
Unit Capacity:
10 Infantry Squads
Special Features:
Blockade Runner -- If this unit lost a battle and must retreat, it gets a bonus attack prior to leaving the system.


A-Wing Squadron
Attack Rating: 192
Durability: 120
UCR: 10
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
First Strike -- This unit gets a bonus attack during the Maneuver Phase. If this ability is utilized, this unit may not be assigned to CSP.
Point Defense -- If assigned to CSP, this unit gets +2 UCR and adds its Attack Rating to its Durability.

B-Wing Squadron
Attack Rating: 408
Durability: 408
UCR: 3
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
Space Superiority Fighter -- This unit's Attack Rating can be applied when calculating total Space Power.
Attack Run -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may enter into an Attack Run against a capital ship or battlestation. If so, it gets -1 UCR but +10% to its Attack Rating.

X-Wing Squadron
Attack Rating: 240
Durability: 312
UCR: 6
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
Onboard R2 Unit -- During the Maneuver Phase, the onboard R2 unit may decrease either the Attack Rating or Durability of this unit by -10% in order to increase the other by +10%.
Space Superiority Fighter -- This unit's Attack Rating can be applied when calculating total Space Power.
Attack Run -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may enter into an Attack Run against a capital ship or battlestation. If so, it gets -1 UCR but +10% to its Attack Rating.

Y-Wing Squadron
Attack Rating: 288
Durability: 384
UCR: 4
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
Onboard R2 Unit -- During the Maneuver Phase, the onboard R2 unit may decrease either the Attack Rating or Durability of this unit by -10% in order to increase the other by +10%.
Bombing Run -- This unit gets a bonus attack during the Siege Phase.



Sounds like fun, yeah?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:04:17 PM by GCW Hale »
LUCIDIUS HALE
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Offline SWSF Eidolon

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 12:23:23 AM »
Im a fan of where this is going.  The idea of setting up the OoB for combat and having it all a structured progress is great for time constraint.  Each and every battle then becomes a known commitment from the beginning.  The stripped down specs are great.  Much easier referencing, condensed values make full fleets easier to manage.  Especially happy with idea of expanding ground combat to be equal w space, so much greatness can happen on ground and w/ personnel/character combat now.  Special abils for each unit are killer.

We should try a mock w somewhat heavy fleets, few heavy cruisers each at least.
~J
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2013, 06:23:51 PM »
Lambda Shuttle Group
Attack Rating: 144
Durability: 240
UCR: 4
Hyperdrive: x1
Unit Capacity:
12 Infantry Squads
Special Features:
Fleet Transport -- During the Siege Phase, this unit may make a total of (5) transports to/from the planet surface.
Logistics Support -- During the Power Phase, this unit adds its Durability to its Attack Rating when calculating total Power.

Stormtrooper Transport Group
Attack Rating: 312
Durability: 240
UCR: 5
Hyperdrive: None
Unit Capacity:
18 Infantry Squads
Special Features:
Boarding Preparations -- During the Maneuver Phase, this unit may select a capital ship for Boarding Operations during the Combat Phase. If so, this unit adds its Durability to its Attack Rating and multiplies that total by x2 when calculating total Power.
Boarding Operations -- During the Combat Phase, this unit may waive attacking to commence Boarding Operations. Any number of Stormtrooper Transports can join up to form a boarding party. In order to successfully board troops, the total Power of the Stormtrooper Transport Group(s) must be greater than the Power of the capital ship they are trying to board.

Skipray Blastboat Group
Attack Rating: 312
Durability: 300
UCR: 5
Hyperdrive: x1
Special Features:
Space Superiority Auxiliary -- This unit adds its Durability to its Attack Rating when calculating total Power.
Air Support -- During the Siege Phase, this unit may make an additional attack.

Republic Assault Transport Group
Attack Rating: 528
Durability: 810
UCR: 5
Hyperdrive: x1
Unit Capacity:
12 Infantry Squads
Special Features:
Combat Boarding Operations -- During the Combat Phase, this unit may make an attack AND commence boarding operations. Any number of Assault Transport Groups may form up for a boarding party. In order to successfully board troops, the total Power of the Assault Transports must be greater than the capital ship they are trying to board.
Air Support -- During the Siege Phase, this unit may make an additional attack.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 06:25:30 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline SWSF Hoppus

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2013, 04:19:25 PM »
I'd love to see an example of this to wrap my brain 100% around it, at a glance i think its just what we need...

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
MOCK BATTLE: IMP vs REB

The following mock battle will take place immediately between Eidolon and Hale. Outside participation is neither required nor desired.
Hale will play as an attacking Imperial Fleet, with Eidolon defending as a Republic Fleet.

Imperial Fleet
2 ISD (12 SF, 12 AUX)
3 VSD (6 SF, 6 AUX)
4 CRAK (4 SF)

VS.

Republic Fleet
2 MC-80s (8 SF, 4 AUX)
3 RAF (3 AUX)
4 NEB (8 SF, 8 AUX)
5 CORV
LUCIDIUS HALE
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 04:43:24 PM »
DEPLOY PHASE Attacking units exit hyperspace and scan the system for defenses.


ISD Imperator 1
AR: 4320 | DUR: 4800/4800 | UCR: 3 | Location: C1
---> TIE Avenger (TA-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Avenger (TA-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-01) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-02) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Bomber (TB-01) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> TIE Bomber (TB-02) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-01) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-02) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-01) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-02) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-01) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-02) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

ISD Imperator 2
AR: 4320 | DUR: 4800/4800 | UCR: 3 | Location: C4
---> TIE Avenger (TA-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Avenger (TA-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-03) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-04) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Bomber (TB-03) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> TIE Bomber (TB-04) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-03) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-04) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-03) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-04) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-03) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-04) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 1
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: C1
---> TIE Fighter (TA-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-05) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-06) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 2
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: C4
---> TIE Fighter (TA-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-07) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-08) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 3
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: E2
---> TIE Fighter (TA-05) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-06) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-09) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-10) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

CRAK Carrack 1
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: C1
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-05) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 2
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: C1
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-06) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 3
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: C4
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-07) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 4
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: C4
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-08) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 04:45:59 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline SWSF Eidolon

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 12:01:30 PM »
   Hrm. . .  PAUSE  ;D   This may be too much, though maybe it's what you have to go through to get to a simpler point of playing. . I dunno.  Feel free to dismiss.  But I think there's still a lot that can be . . .reduced or reworked.  So far it's a GREAT progress in my mind though. .



    I'd be much more comfortable getting a test battle on if we defined a couple more things.  I think there's a lot we could stand to look at a little and define yet, it will make the whole thing a lot more structured and set game, and instead of comparing values so much, maybe we could literally get closer to an actual Paper/Rock/Scissor thing, like have Units/GamePieces used in certain ways as opposed to being free ranging units.  Or maybe Heavy Cruisers are the Free Ranging piece, so combat centers on them, then everything else has an ancillary role or special mechanisms.

    Statuses it  seems like a bit much to manage and digest yet.  Also I think we would benefit to inject some base "objective".  Some reason that the players want to butt heads instead of just stay away from each other on grid and preserve totals for Power Phase. 

    Couple thoughts-

    The X marks the spot.  So what if the Attacker has to get all his forces in to the X instead of just anywhere on the grid for Power Phase totals? whatever makes it to X is what is totaled for the power phase for attacker.  The defenders objective is to keep things out of the X and stay alive for Power Phase total himself, so this encourages units to be spread out and positioned as a wall almost as opposed to grouped in one location. 

    You'd have to say NO UNIT can start in the X, With 1 Maneuver Phase preceding Battle Phase, then you need to add ability to Maneuver in Power Phase as well so that the Attacker could have a chance to move his surviving units to the X and Defender can Maneuver to X as well.  Whatever units from both groups are left at end that can make it to the X off their movement in the Power Phase, are totalled for Power and winner.  The Diff between Attacker and Defender Power Phase totals in the X determines both the Winner, and some other kind of penalty we say against the loser, it could be additional literal loss of units or damage or something.


     It treats things almost like a Checker/Chess board in a way.   We say that only 1 Heavy Cruiser can occupy 1 location, it then becomes like the Checker or the Rook/Knight/Pawn, you can't move through a piece.  We base combat around Heavy Cruisers.  They are the Top Notch Scale.  Every other Unit is ancillary or a service to a Heavy Cruiser some how?


Outline for OoB. . .

    Deploy Phase - Attacker "Exits" HS on outer most ring, positions units wherever he wants, remembering the end objective is to both Eliminate as much of the Defense as possible, keep as much of himself alive as possible, and maneuver as many pieces as possible in to the X in the Power Phase.  Defender posts his locations, all within the inner ring.  He needs to both Block opponents pieces and destroy what he can and stay alive.  His pieces do not need to make it to X for Power Phase.  Rather wherever they are, they are totaled, giving a burden of DOING on the attacker.

    Maneuver Phase - In order to set selves up to BOTH Engage opponents, and to then in Power Phase move to t he X, attacker maneuvers his units.  Defender then has opportunity to reposition.

    Battle Phase - Based on final locations in Maneuver Phase, Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Fighters and Support are used for their purposes and attacks.

    Damage Phase - Destroyed Units Cleared

    Power Phase - Attacker gets one last Maneuver opportunity to position all he can in the X for his Power Totals.  Defenders totals wherever they are.


Special Rules. . .

    Heavy Cruisers CANNOT move through each other, they must go around.
    All Other Vessels can move "passed"/"through" each other, or occupy same location as well, with respects to heavy cruisers to.
    Movement will have to be carefully balanced to fit the move to the X need of attacker and Defender counter steps etc.




Couple separate thoughts. . .

-   I think Fighters and Aux would do well to function more so as special use mechanisms only as opposed to regular free-ranging units with special abils as well.  That would drastically reduce the mental power spent on keeping track of them and their values so much.  Maybe like, only Bomber or Assault units can be used to attack Cap Ships/Heavy Cruisers.  Fighters can be used to destroy other Fighters or Bombers at a 1:1 ratio, 2:1 to take on Interceptors.  Perhaps Interceptors can be used to Destroy ANY other SF Piece at a 1:1 ratio.  Maybe they have a special role of Countering/Nullifying any Attack by a Bomber unit on a friendly in same location.


-    A thought for simplicity and times sake, in rules and in specs we should express nothing as a Percentage unless absolutely necessary, rather a raw value.  This removes a calculation step for players.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 12:14:13 PM by Eidolon »
~J
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 12:51:24 PM »
I think you might be overcomplicating it even more. Perhaps I'll hijack the mock and run it myself, and do a full run through... THEN we can entertain ancillary/suggestive commentary.
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 01:09:47 PM »
Took me about 10 minutes to build from scratch.

REPUBLIC DEPLOY PHASE Defending units post locations.

MC-80 Mon Republica 1
AR: 2704 | DUR: 4550/4550 | UCR: 3 | Location: C2
--> A-Wing (A/W-01) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-01) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> X-Wing (X/W-01) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Assault Transport (RAT-02) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-01) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-02) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

MC-80 Mon Republica 2
AR: 2704 | DUR: 4550/4550 | UCR: 3 | Location: C3
--> A-Wing (A/W-02) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-02) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> X-Wing (X/W-02) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-03) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-04) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

RAF Assault 1
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: C2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

RAF Assault 2
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: C2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

RAF Assault 3
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: C2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

NEB Escort 1
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: C2
--> A-Wing (A/W-03) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-03) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-05) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-06) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 2
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: C2
--> X-Wing (X/W-03) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-07) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-08) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 3
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: C3
--> A-Wing (A/W-04) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-04) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-09) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-10) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 4
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: C3
--> X-Wing (X/W-04) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-11) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-12) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

CORV Runner 1
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: C3

CORV Runner 2
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: C3

CORV Runner 3
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: C3

CORV Runner 4
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: C3

CORV Runner 5
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: C3
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 03:49:30 PM »
Utilizing some suggestions you mentioned!

IMPERIAL MANEUVER PHASE Attackers may move up to 2 grid spaces away from their starting position. Heavy Capital Ships cannot move into Low Orbit positions where a defending Heavy Capital Ship is.


ISD Imperator 1
AR: 4320 | DUR: 4800/4800 | UCR: 3 | Location: D2
---> TIE Avenger (TA-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Avenger (TA-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-01) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-02) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Bomber (TB-01) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> TIE Bomber (TB-02) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-01) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-02) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-01) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-02) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-01) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-02) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

ISD Imperator 2
AR: 4320 | DUR: 4800/4800 | UCR: 3 | Location: D3
---> TIE Avenger (TA-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Avenger (TA-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-03) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-04) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
---> TIE Bomber (TB-03) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> TIE Bomber (TB-04) AR: 240 / DUR: 144 / UCR: 6
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-03) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Skipray Blastboat (SB-04) AR: 312 / DUR: 300 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-03) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Stormtrooper Transport (ST-04) AR: 312 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 5
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-03) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-04) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 1
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: D2
---> TIE Fighter (TA-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-05) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-06) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 2
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: D3
---> TIE Fighter (TA-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-07) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-08) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

VSD Victory 3
AR: 3840 | DUR: 2700/2700 | UCR: 3 | Location: D2
---> TIE Fighter (TA-05) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> TIE Fighter (TA-06) AR: 288 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 9
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-09) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
---> Lambda Shuttle (LS-10) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

CRAK Carrack 1
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: D2
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-05) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 2
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: D2
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-06) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 3
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: D3
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-07) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10

CRAK Carrack 4
AR: 800 | DUR: 1050 | UCR: 6 | Location: D3
---> TIE Interceptor (TN-08) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2013, 10:26:01 AM »
REPUBLIC MANEUVER PHASE Defending units reposition. No reinforcements to arrive.

ACTIONS: MC80s transfer 1000 points from AR to DUR each.

MC-80 Mon Republica 1
AR: 1704 | DUR: 5550/4550 | UCR: 3 | Location: D2
--> A-Wing (A/W-01) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-01) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> X-Wing (X/W-01) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-01) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Assault Transport (RAT-02) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-01) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-02) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

MC-80 Mon Republica 2
AR: 1704 | DUR: 5550/4550 | UCR: 3 | Location: D3
--> A-Wing (A/W-02) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-02) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> X-Wing (X/W-02) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-02) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-03) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-04) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

RAF Assault 1
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: D2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

RAF Assault 2
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: D2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

RAF Assault 3
AR: 2400 | DUR: 1800/1800 | UCR: 4 | Location: D2
--> Assault Transport (RAT-01) AR: 528 / DUR: 810 / UCR: 5

NEB Escort 1
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: D2
--> A-Wing (A/W-03) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-03) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-05) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-06) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 2
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: D2
--> X-Wing (X/W-03) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-03) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-07) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-08) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 3
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: D3
--> A-Wing (A/W-04) AR: 192 / DUR: 120 / UCR: 10
--> B-Wing (B/W-04) AR: 408 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 3
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-09) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-10) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

NEB Escort 4
AR: 696 | DUR: 900/900 | UCR: 5 | Location: D3
--> X-Wing (X/W-04) AR: 240 / DUR: 408 / UCR: 6
--> Y-Wing (Y/W-04) AR: 288 / DUR: 384 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-11) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4
--> Lambda Shuttle (LSG-12) AR: 144 / DUR: 240 / UCR: 4

CORV Runner 1
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: D3

CORV Runner 2
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: D3

CORV Runner 3
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: D3

CORV Runner 4
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: D3

CORV Runner 5
AR: 240 | DUR: 525/525 | UCR: 7 | Location: D3
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 04:46:34 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Erasmar

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 11:18:40 AM »
I like what Eid brings up about simplifying things even further. If you look at strategy games, many people want a lot of complexity, but the games that boil down that complexity are the most addictive and can actually offer the most strategy.

I would go one step further than the heavy cruiser idea and say every hex can only support: 1 cap ship + 1 SF/aux.

Cap ships block movement of cap ships. SF and aux craft move where they please.

All ships have 2 action points to divide between moving and attacking: move-attack, move-move, attack-move, attack-attack.

If you choose to end your turn with 1 action point, you repair, regaining some durability.

Ships have two attack ratings, two defense ratings. Attack/defense vs cap ships, attack/defense vs sf/aux.

Also, sacrilege I know, we reduce the # of sf/aux craft. Big ships/carriers enter battle with 2, maybe 3 SFs/aux. All other ships have either 0 or 1.

Then you work in some special abilities or vulnerabilities, but you have a very basic battle system.

To take your spec ideas Hale, here's what I see:

Imperial-class Star Destroyer
AC: 8
AS: 3
DC: 7
DS: 4
Durability: 10
Movement: 2
Attachments:
   1 TIE Interceptor
   1 TIE Bomber
   1 Assault Transport
Special Features:
   Dual Shield Domes -- Something
   Battlefield Dominance -- Something


Other ships' ratings would basically be set so that if they take on an ISD 1-v-1, their attack rating will always be lower than the ISD's defense rating, so they will actually always lose durability. Meaning, you either attack with several cap ships, or attack with SFs. ISDs would actually be vulnerable to SFs again, without any need to crazy special rules.

Combat is attacker's attack minus the defender's defend. If the defend is higher, the difference is dealt as damage to the attacker.

You can flank with additional attackers. The first additional attacker adds half their attack rating. The second adds a quarter. Maybe you can only have 2 flankers, or three total ships, involved in a single attack. It's still tactically important to surround the enemy though, to keep them from moving.

Maybe have one small additional stat so that overmatched attackers can still harm the defense somehow, but I kind of like that a ship with strong defense simply has a strong defense and requires more force to take down.

So this got a little long, but it comes down to:
   - attack vs caps, attack vs sf/aux, defend vs caps, defend vs sf/aux
   - overall durability
   - one ship per hex
   - one SF/aux per hex
   - up to 3 attackers per defender (in same attack)
   - 2 action points per turn (attack-move, move-attack, move-move, attack-attack)
   - leave 1 action point unspent to recover 1 or 2 durability
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 04:43:49 PM »
I like those ideas, but to me the problem isn't necessarily with specs. We can simplify those to death and still have the problem of fielding multiple ISDs and support craft. Hop is working on a system that is simplified like that, that features lower numbers and such, but again... what are the real issues at hand?

1. Length of Battles
2. Management of Fleets
3. Ease of Use
4. Giving the players who want battle tactics their due.

To me, length of battle/time commitment is the chief concern. GCWIII is supposed to be bigger in terms of fleet on fleet, and so figuring out how to condense that into a desirable format is the issue. Regardless of what develops in terms of specs, I'm going to push for the proposed Order of Battle as it's written for this mock in whatever new system we come up with.

Thanks for the input, Eras.

The reality is... we may have to go back to a "command ship + support" model for combat. Even with these jazzy new specs, it can be a little daunting going over each and every unit's actions.

Do we want small scale and simplicity or big and complex? In my mind, we can't have "big and simple" without delving into combat automation.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 04:51:52 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Erasmar

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 09:21:21 PM »
The specs were the least of my concerns/thoughts when I was brainstorming that. What I was really thinking was an extremely simple combat model that's based on something like Panzer Corps, a "beer and pretzel" wargame that is as simple as it gets. You'd be surprised how focused you become on tactics when the rules are made very simple for you.

I'm also imagining about 8 units per side max, including sf/aux craft. An 8-unit fleet would be something like an ISD, VSD, 2 frigates, 2 interceptors, and 2 bombers.

I'm with you on the "big and simple" difficulties. I don't think it's possible, though I would very much love to be proven wrong!
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Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 08:41:04 AM »
Unfortunately when the servers got shifted, my thread where I had created a "tabletop board-game" version of GCW got deleted somehow. It was called "GCW: Conquest" and pretty much used the setup you're talking about. Specs were very, very minimal.

This was the game "board":


Hyperspace values were essentially the # of grids you could move per turn. The Rebels had the ability to launch 1 surprise attack per turn anywhere, but using only minimal forces, whereas the Empire got to deploy units at the start of the game anywhere. It was very paper-rock-scissors in a way. The galaxy was minimally reduced to systems mentioned only in the movies, for greater recognition.

Specs were reduced to that which you'd see in any Collectible Card Game. Here's something else I did:



C = Credits, or cost of unit
A = Attack
D = Defense/Durability
S = Shields
H = Hyperspeed

The theory was that it could be both a card game and board game at the same time, and that it could be played multiple times over... not necessarily a long-haul.
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