Author Topic: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR  (Read 153373 times)

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2012, 06:12:41 PM »
Hey man... no need to act all crazy. We're running these mocks to make sure the rules make sense under every circumstance. It's tough because I want players to customize their ships with whatever fighters they want. In the end... if you can buy it, you have a right to field it.

Suggestions ---

For the GE/IR:
1. Limit the VEC to (1) per Fleet max, or drop its SF loadout to (9) squads, OR increase its CP to 10.
2. Limit the ESC to (2) per Fleet max.
3. Limit the TIE Avenger to (1) per ship max.
4. Limit the TIE Bomber to (3) per ship max.
5. TIE Fighters are the default stock starfighter for all Imperial vessels, everything else must be paid for normally.

For the RA/NR:
1. Z-95s are the default stock starfighter for all Rebel/NR vessels, everything else must be paid for normally.

Bombing Runs:
1. Proton Bombs do (5) points and bypass shields only... NO double Armor/Hull damage.
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2012, 08:19:42 PM »
Sorry, I didnt mean to get all psychotic there but when the rough numbers put you at a single post death, with absolutely NOTHING you could have done about it, I started thinking about Gall and Dem being able to field these things, and it scared the hell out of me, lmao!!!

Ok, here goes for my ideas with your suggestions.

For GE/IR:
Ok for the VEC and ESC, I think we should leave them alone, but drop the advanced from the loadouts and limit the compliments to no more then 1/3 bombers. I mean they are carriers after all, but still. So the VEC/ESC would only be able to carry tie fighters, tie interceptors, and tie bombers 4 and 2 respectively. That way even if someone tries to field VECs awesome, you got 36 squads of fighters, and its all tie fighters, lol.

The tie avenger... this is a vong era ship, we should just drop it all together. The imps have the XG-1 for this kind of power/defense, and they cost 2:1 to have, which is perfect for such power on an imp fighter.

The only limit on the tie bomber should be for the VEC/ESC an only due to an issue of balance. I can assure you, if I could get away with it, I would have carriers filled with Y-Wings, so we should not limit the T/B either.

I absolutely love the idea of stock units being limited to T/F and Z-95s. Although its not very cannon for the timeline, it really does crush the abuse ive been using on neutral units over rebel units due to "listed" fighter/aux compliments on the rebel units. Which evidentally is no longer an issue anyway, lol. But either way, I love it because due to the power of bombers, if you want em, you should have to build them. I want this rule!!

As far as bombing runs, with the the increased difficulty in attaining them, perhaps we should leave it alone, kind of a bonus for building them. Seeing as they are not a stock unit for anyone, we dont have to worry about ships coming out of the gate with 8+ squads of em, and like you said, if you paid for it, you took the time to build it, why shouldnt you be able to use it? With this being said, I think both the B-Wing and Assault Gunboat should have a proton bomb added to them to signify them as bombers. Why should only Y-Wings and T/Bs get all the fun when these 2 are clearly classified as bombers as well?

And we should list it you MAY NOT perform a bombing run during a death response. Kinda like we said stuff cant move when its blowing up, how is a bomber doing a bombing run when its blowing up?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 08:24:56 PM by Ramano »

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2012, 01:34:59 AM »
Republic Stock Units:
Corellian Corvette (CAP)
Z-95 Headhunter (SF)
Lambda-class Shuttle (AUX)
Republic Fleet Marine (GI)
Combat Landspeeder (GAV)

Imperial Stock Units:
IPV-1 Patrol Vessel (CAP)
TIE Fighter (SF)
Lambda-class Shuttle (AUX)
Imperial Fleet Trooper (GI)
Speeder Bike (GAV)

Stock units are produced entirely for FREE but with added production times to offset this bonus. Stock units cannot be "stockpiled" ad infinitum in a player's Reserve Force for unlimited units.

--------------------------

Bombing Run Capable Units:
Skipray Blastboat
TIE Bomber
XG-1 Assault Gunboat
B-Wing
Y-Wing

You will notice that "Proton Bombs" have been removed entirely. In lieu of this, Bombing Runs are Proton Torpedo-only attacks that can penetrate the shielding of any unit and hit the Armor directly (no Hull damage). Bombing Runs can only be used on targets with equal or less UCR than the attacking unit, and cannot be used in a post-mortem attack.
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Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2012, 03:09:10 AM »
Prince Nich'ta's Royal Carrier

The loan carrier emerged from hyperspace into the mock system, escorted by a single bomber squadron. Shields and weapons came online as scanners began sweeping the system for enemy contacts. The entire compliment of fighters spilled from the royal ship's hangars and took up a patrol position, ready for action.

Summary:
Exited HS in DS-3.
Launched craft.
Scanning.
Weapons/Shields online.


Starfighter Group
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-01
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-02
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-03
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-04
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-05
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-06
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-07
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-08
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Miy'Til Starfighter Squadron DK-09
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 288/288
Hetrinar Assault Bomber Squadron Rapier
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 720/720

Charubah-class Fleet Carrier Dark Queen
Location: DS-3    Heading: C-10
Shields: 1500/1500    Armor: 1500/1500    Hull: 1000/1000    Systems: 800/800
Onboard Craft:
Hetrinar Assault Bomber Squadron DK-10
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 720/720
Hetrinar Assault Bomber Squadron DK-10
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 720/720
Hetrinar Assault Bomber Squadron DK-10
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 720/720
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2012, 03:45:11 PM »
Aww, we are so both fucked, lmao. No one is playing the hapans, so no one bothered to fix their stats hahaha!! And I think we should restart this using the new rules. If acceptable, please everyone re-arm to a 12CP fleet from your own faction utilizing all new rules and compliment augmentations. All stock units.

Fleet begins scanning

Summary:
Begins active scan

Status: All craft in DS1
Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS One
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (launched)
2 Lambda Shuttles (launched)

Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS Two
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (launched)
2 Lambda Shuttles (launched)

Fighter Group 1 (CSP)
2/2 Z-95 Squadrons
Shields: 144/144, Armor: 144/144, UCR: 5

Aux Group 1 (DS1)
4/4 Lambda Shuttles
Shields:20/20/20/20, Armor: 20/20/20/20, Systems: 20/20/20/20, UCR: 5

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2012, 10:06:58 PM »
TION PIRATES exit hyperspace in DS4 and commences active scanning.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:15:37 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2012, 01:35:20 AM »
Edited to be fully within the mock parameters. I expect to get beaten badly now :-(
Strike Cruiser = 5cp
Strike Cruiser = 5cp
Patrol Craft = 1cp
Patrol Craft = 1cp
Total = 12sp

Commander Parrault's Brigade

Commander Parrault returned to the battlefield with a new squadron. Two sleek cruisers and a contingent of hyperspace capable fighters established formation. The two larger ships began launching their payloads of TIE Fighters and auxiliary craft as scanners activated. Weapons systems and shields came online in preparation for what was to come.

Summary:
Exited HS in DS-3.
Launched craft.
Scanning.
Weapons/Shields online.


Starfighter Group
    Location: DS-3    Action: CSP    Armor: 576/576
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-001
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-002
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-001
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-002

Auxiliary Group
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-01
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-02
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-03
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-04
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-05
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-06
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-07
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-08
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-09
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-10
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-11
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-12
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-01
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-02
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-03
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-04
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-05
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-06
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-07
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-08
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-09
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-10
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-11
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-12
    Location: DS-3    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20

Capital Ships
Strike-class Medium Cruiser Rosa Klebb
Location: DS-3    Heading: C-10
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225

Strike-class Medium Cruiser Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Location: DS-3    Heading: C-10
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Emilio Largo
Location: DS-3    Heading: C-10
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Auric Goldfinger
Location: DS-3    Heading: C-10
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75
[/size]
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 12:45:56 PM by Dementat »
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2012, 07:28:24 AM »
Ok, my turn!! Few things here, lmao...

Hale:
Y-Wings are not a stock unit

Dem:
AGBs are not a stock unit
Gamma class Assault Shuttles are not a stock unit
Your about an hour and a half early on your post, 1 post every 24hrs. Not a big deal, dont go change it as its already past the time, but just letting you know so you can keep a better eye on it. Not a big deal here but I will call you out on it in the real game.

Republic Stock Units:
Corellian Corvette (CAP)
Z-95 Headhunter (SF)
Lambda-class Shuttle (AUX)
Republic Fleet Marine (GI)
Combat Landspeeder (GAV)

Imperial Stock Units:
IPV-1 Patrol Vessel (CAP)
TIE Fighter (SF)
Lambda-class Shuttle (AUX)
Imperial Fleet Trooper (GI)
Speeder Bike (GAV)

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2012, 09:25:04 AM »
RAMANO:
I'm not using Y-Wings. I'm using a "Veteran Y-Wing Squadron" ... it's a Super Starfighter like the Elite TIE and Elite X-Wing, only for Independent usage.

Given the limited CP options for this mock, let's roll with the added Starfighter Escort. Maybe I can make a rule provision for that or something later, because in Episode I we gave the Rebels an option of having (3) Squadrons extra outside of their fleet (at 1 CP each). I think it's an idea worth testing, and besides -- (2) STRKs + (2) AGB Squads is more favorable than a Charubah for purposes of this mock. =)

DEMENTAT:
In terms of Assault Shuttles, please use Lambda Shuttles instead. With very, very limited exceptions (like your AGBs) I'd like to make this a "STOCK MOCK". Even still... 24 Lambda Shuttles is pretty damned intimidating at 18 damage a pop. lol
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:33:15 AM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2012, 10:53:19 AM »
Correcting my post. I completely spaced on the "stock" unit thing. Also, how can I have posted early if it is my first post? You are the one that started the mock over, Ramano ;-)
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2012, 11:20:36 AM »
Well I believe the point of the rebels getting to carry outside fighter squads is due to the fact they have hyperdrive and that rebel tactics depend almost completely on fighters. And I do believe we discussed it, bombers of any type will NOT be stock units. We already know what we can do with bombers, I think the point of this mock should be to see how starting stuff works out, thus no bombers.

And hale, how is a super fighter like the elite tie/x-wing count as a stock unit? LMAO! Come on now, only I am allowed to try and cheat like that, and I cant even get away with it, hahaha!

And err... oh we did full restart, im sorry I was just going off of our last posts with corrected fleets. Disregard that.

Edit: Well dam it fine, I want some bombers too LMAO!! Bah, fuq it, i'll beat you without em... or more likely die trying hahaha. However Hale, with your elite y-wings your at 13 CP, you should drop a Z-95 squad to equal that out at least.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 11:27:47 AM by Ramano »

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2012, 01:18:39 PM »
RAMANO:

DREAD (9 CP) + AVIG (1 CP) + AVIG (1 CP) + Elite Y-Wing (1 CP) = 12 CP

But I will change my fleet and remove the Y-Wings. I lowered the CP value of the AVIG right before I posted my stuff because those things have less hit points and do less damage than a X-Wing Squad, so it felt wrong that they were 2 CP.

TO ALL:

The problem is that I could field 4 ESCs for this mock and dump 24 TIE Fighter Squadrons onto the scene. If I clumped them all into one massive TIE Swarm that's a 3456 Armor Unit that does 1152 Damage (and at UCR 8 that's gonna hurt). My fleet would last two rounds, at best. This isn't even the bad news... suppose a player decides to do this with their in-game fleet. That's suddenly 7 ESCs on the field. If the player becomes an Admiral, an 8th ESC can be added, which brings us to 48 TIE Fighter Squadrons in all. Replacing an ESC is only 300 KCs, but enemy players would be so focused on the massive TIE Swarms that the ESC's wouldn't even get touched.

I don't want to turn this game into a Carrier battle, as I believe that's what Galactic Realms became, but at the same time we need to recognize the spam potential of our smaller ships... and our Bombers...

Worst-case scenario: 3 ESCs loaded out with 18 TIE Bomber Squadrons and 6 Skipray Blastboats go on one massive Bombing Run against an MC80 Cruiser... this would amount to 1320 Damage, completely destroying the MC80. Purchasing those Bombers and Blastboats cost only 1680 KCs, so it's entirely possible to assemble this fearsome strike fleet in a month's time - and let's not forget about the rest of the 14 CPs the Imp player has left to use...

We need to have some guidance on this, but I don't want the guidance to micromanage the player's fleet or takeaway from the tactical customization possibilities of it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 01:26:41 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2012, 02:02:36 PM »
LMAO, you cant be serious?! I just made this argument 2 days ago, remember my post with the VEC and ESC? I mean if you want I can go quote it all for you here. All you did was keep feeding me this stuff about wanting people to have customization with their ships while evidentally just dismissing my concerns all together. Now you look at having to face off against it and NOW you want to do something about it?

Also, I dont get where the 1152 damage is comming from? 12*24 = 288 * 2 lasers each = 576 damage. Umm... im not afraid of that, especially considering I can kill it in 2 posts. But this is why I said the carriers needed a listed unchangable fighter compliment or their CP costs doubled. And dont even begin to tell me you upgraded the TF with heavy lasers, not only did they NOT carry them but it makes the fighter much too powerful. T/Fs are supposed to be the worst fighter in the galaxy! Thats why they are so cheap and easy to produce. I'll walk through the gates of hell and back before im gunna allow HLs on a T/F again. If you are that worried about imperial fighters sucking that bad, dont play imperial I guess, I just dont know what else to say. They are supposed to suck, thats why imp ships get so much more firepower.

And the VEC and ESC can not carry skiprays. Tie class only remember.

Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2012, 02:09:19 PM »
And an easy fix for this is to drop the VEC from the ship specs all together, and lower the ESC to 4 fighter squads Tie class only.

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2012, 03:54:24 PM »
Laser Cannons = 1 pt
Heavy Laser Cannon = 2 pt
SFS Laser Cannons = 2 pt
Advanced SFS Laser Cannons = 3 pt

It's been that way forever for balancing issues.

STEP 1 -- But yes, since the VEC isn't even Expanded Uni canon, I'll drop that one altogether.

STEP 2 -- By the time you read this, I will have made the following changes to the Imperial Specs: VEC deleted, ESC increased to 500 KCs & 5 CP, Imperial NEB onboard starfighter squadrons changed from 3 TIE Fighter-only Squadrons to 2 TIE Starfighter Squadrons.

I'm not concerned with a NEB Spam Fleet, but if somebody does field 7 NEBs, it'll be 14 Squads coming at you as opposed to 21. This will give players who like NEBs more flexibility (since XG-1s can be loaded on them now), but prevent total stock unit spamming.

STEP 3 -- We all make a "gentleman's agreement" to not spam each other. I'm heavily leaning towards the ISD-II solo as my fleet, and it I know Dem prefers a more balanced approached, and even you Ramano prefer one-sided space superiority fleets -- but none of us show any tendencies to spam, so we could simply leave it at that.

We proved in the last mock that Escort Frigates don't last long anyway, so even if one of us decides to spam with Escort ships, I'm sure it will balance out one way or another. That's what CSP + Ship Weapons vs Fighters are for right?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 04:11:03 PM by GCW Hale »
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