Author Topic: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR  (Read 153345 times)

Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2012, 04:49:36 PM »
Oh, I spam most certainly, I just spam fighters/aux, not ships. Not worth it to spam ships as a single squad of fighters will equal out most small ships.

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2012, 05:16:03 PM »
THE TION HEGEMONY PIRATES!
Fortuna Favet Audax | Fortune Favors The Bold
CAPT Bartholomew "The Dread Pirate" Roberts

<>

"Move closer to the system, we must let everyone know that I, the Dread Pirate Roberts, hereby declares this planet to be the rightful bounty of the Tion Hegemony!" As the captain barked out his orders, the ship came to life as all stations went on alert and starfighters took up combat space patrol formations.

<>



<> PBC HMS Revenge
Location: C-15 | Status: Holding | UCR: 3 | Shields: 1100 | Armor: 1100 | Hull: 650 | Systems: 650

>> Z-95 Headhunter Squadron Lion I
Location: C-15 | Status: SF CSP | UCR: 5 | Shields: 144/144 | Armor: 144/144

>> Z-95 Headhunter Squadron Lion II
Location: C-15 | Status: SF CSP | UCR: 5 | Shields: 144/144 | Armor: 144/144

>> Lambda-class Shuttle Royale I
Location: C-15 | Status: AUX CSP | UCR: 5 | Shields: 20/20 | Armor: 20/20

>> Lambda-class Shuttle Royale II
Location: C-15 | Status: AUX CSP | UCR: 5 | Shields: 20/20 | Armor: 20/20

<>

OOC Notes: Fleet changed on the fly. Deal with it. =) I also want to try out a new idea: Starfighter CSP vs Auxiliary CSP. AUX's can block AUX's but not SFs; SFs can block SFs but not AUX's... get it? Good.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:19:06 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2012, 05:57:28 PM »
OOC Note: Ok, so which takes priority for CSP, do I have to get through 1 then the other, or how does this work? What if im trying to attack your fighters with my aux and not your ships, or what if I want to attack your aux with my aux. What if I want to attack your aux with my fighters? I dont get how this is gunna work?

"Sir, enemy pirates located in sector C-15."
"Recall the fighters to keep them safe, move in and engage."

The fleet moves from DS1 to C-1 then to C-16 where they start the decimation of the pirate forces.

Summary:
Recalled all craft
Moved to C-16
Engaged pirate fleet

Attack Summary:
RAFs HLS One and Two vs CSP C-15
60HQLCs * 8 = 480
30HTLBs * 15 = 450
UCR = 4/5 = 0.8 x 930 = 744 total damage

Total damage to Z-95 Lion I, 300pts
Total damage to Z-95 Lion II, 300pts
Total damage to L/SHU Royal I, 72pts
Total damage to L/SHU Royal II, 72pts


Status: All craft in C-16
Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS One
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS Two
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2012, 06:30:31 PM »
And for the record, I am not at all against having aux CSP as well, but I think it needs to be expanded upon. I honestly dont know how this is gunna work. Every scenario I run in my head just leaves more questions then fixes. The biggest problem I keep coming up with is how do we consider everything engaged?

Say we consider it 1 fighter to 1 aux, thus a single squad of fighters can occupy 12 aux craft... which unless you are fielding one hell of a fleet, your not gunna have much more then that, makes it pointless.

Say we consider 1 squadron to 1 aux, well then what happens in the scenario someone has something with 20+ aux craft on it, you'll never be able to engage all that, so it out of balance.

Saying fighters ignore aux and vice-verse then what is the point of the rule at all other then to create a headache to have to deal with?

Say we want to use it as just a layered aux, well then we are back to square 1 with what if I want to use fighters to engage aux and aux to engage fighters.

Having fighters not be able to target aux, or some variation there-of... is so stupid im not even going to address it.

We could think of making aux groups for the purpose of CSP engagement but what if I dont have enough aux to make a full group. Seems stupid to say they cant do anything? This ends up falling apart then too.

And the problem we have is if we make them too hard to get through, people throw 20 lambda's on their fleet and never have to worry about a bombing run, making bombers pointless. If we make them too easy to get through, then whats the point of troubling with this at all? Then we have what priority everything takes, because as I stated earlier, if they ignore each other, whats the point of it, to stop aux from attacking your ships?

First off, Im the only one who actually does that, and 2, thats not what im using the aux for. Its a heavy fighter neutralization to burn up your CSP. It allows me to save my interceptors for CSP while still killing all of your CSP thus allowing my bombers control of the skies. And honestly, im gunna do this regardless of what you do to the aux stats or what you remove from them im still gunna do it, its easy fighter control, and if you ever played the game XvsT you'll see where I got the idea from, its standard practice. Why do you think some of these shuttles are so heavily armed?

So like I said, im cool with this idea, but you got some work ahead of you to work out the logistics of it.

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2012, 07:31:28 PM »
I was thinking this scenario:

NEB has 2 X-Wing Squads and 3 Shuttles on CSP.
DREAD attacks NEB with 2 TIE Fighter Squads and 12 Skiprays.

The (2) TIE Fighters are blocked by the (2) X-Wings, so none of them get through (although the X-Wings are "engaged").
The (12) Skiprays are blocked by the (3) Shuttles, so (9) of them get through.

Scenario 2:

NEB-A & NEB-B & NEB-C have (6) X-Wings and (6) Shuttles on CSP.
DREAD & ESC attacks NEB-A with (6) TIE Fighter Squads + (2) TIE Bomber and (16) Skiprays on a Bombing Run.

The (8) TIE Fighters are blocked by the (6) X-Wings, engaging all (6), which allows the (2) TIE Bombers to get through dealing 144 Armor Damage.
The (16) Skiprays are blocked by (6) Shuttles, which allows (10) of them to get through, dealing 40 Armor damage.


Under no circumstance can an AUX or even (12) AUX block (1) SF Squad. Starfighters are too nimble for the AUX, so they slip through the AUX CSP. On the other hand, AUX are too big for the SF Screen and are able to punch right through it.

SF to SF / AUX to AUX


Scenario 3:
GE Strike Force consisting of (13) Lambda Shuttles and (1) XG-1 Gunboat Squadron exit hyperspace and attack an Imperial Remnant CARRACK with (1) TIE Fighter Squads on CSP.

The (13) GE Shuttles attack (1) TIE Fighter Squad, inflicting 147 Damage on it... which is enough to kill it, so it has been successfully "engaged" by the AUX hands down, leaving the XG-1 Gunboats to perform a Bombing Run on the CRAK.
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2012, 08:03:28 PM »
So basically your saying SF can only block SF, Aux can only block aux... thats what I said was dumb. Ive been pondering this for an hour or so now and heres the best i've come up with so far:

Every 4 aux are formed into a group, no exceptions. A single forced group of less then 4 may count as a whole group in the advent you have an uneven amount of aux. (Example: You have 7 Aux, you have 2 groups, 1 of 4, 1 forced group of 3) Basically we make Aux big fighters seeing as thats pretty much what we are using them for anyway. In the event they are being used for CSP/to engage CSP, an aux group counts as a fighter squad.

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2012, 09:56:52 PM »
I don't think we need to "group" AUX like we do Starfighters since AUX's get attacked that way anyway... Let's say with the PBR HMS Revenge I fire all weapons on Lambda Shuttles... I'm not going to sit there and calculate # of weapons per Shuttle, I'm going to do total damage and then divide by targets. In this case, 800 x UCR (3/5) = 480 Damage / 12 Shuttles = 40 damage each. All destroyed. Done deal.

Since this game treats AUXs like "mini capital ships" we have to follow that mindset accordingly by letting them fly and die as solo units.

The movies don't really portray AUX's in combat, so all we have is the video games...and even then their role is minor. The whole idea behind the AUXs we have in Star Wars simming today really came from the SW:RPG by WEG.  Sure, they may have made it into the SW Comic Books, but for the most part they again play a minor role.  Unfortunately in every iteration of SW Simming, AUX's are combat thorns that can pile the damage if not dealt with...which is now a major role.

Now this isn't to say AUXs can't mop the floor with Starfighters... hell... I definitely remember getting my ass kicked by an "elite" Lambda shuttle in X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, but allowing them to form groups and engage entire squadrons at will is I believe "unconstitutional" to the spirit and intent of GCW.

Quote
Foreword
Hoppus and I (Hale) have been developing the ideas of Galactic Civil War for nearly an entire year.  It started out as a pet project due to the dissatisfaction with After Endor and traditional simming as we know it on the Star Wars Sim Forum; and what it became is our new hope for the Forum.  Complex rule systems with endless modifiers and tit-for-tat tweaks and exceptions for this-and-that were things we worked very hard on to prevent and avoid at all costs.  What remains is a set of rules that gets back to the basics.

Our continuing goal and intent with GCW is to provide clear, simple, and universal rules with easy-to-follow gaming mechanics that make gameplay both easy, exciting, and encouraging for multiple players to join in and game each other.  We hope that with an eye towards the passed glory days of AE and GR, and with another eye looking to the horizon of the SWSF, we desire to create an ideal simming environment for the future, today.

What is a clear, simple, and easy-to-follow gaming mechanic to incorporate Auxiliaries in battle?
1. Let them fly and die as individual units.
2. Let them provide 1:1 CSP cover against attacking AUX.
3. Since AUX's are solo units, they can be "engaged" by other solo units such as capital ships and starfighter squadrons (which "fly as one" unit).



Oh and one more thing:

Quote
Standard Movement ~ Moving into A-Ring exhausts all movement points. Moving into a DEEP SPACE ZONE (even from another zone) exhausts all movement points. Moving diagonally is NOT ALLOWED.

The logic behind this rule:
1. Moving into the A-Ring from the B-ring exhausts all movement points because engine power is directed towards overcoming the more intense gravitational pull of the planet.
2. Deep Space to Deep Space is a huge span of distance relative to the actual System, which is why it exhausts all movement points.

The intent behind movement points being exhausted is to:
1. Prevent players in "sliding" from one side of the System to the next via Deep Space Zones. Starfighters especially would become masters at this since they have fast movement points. Imagine an A-Wing Squadron moving from C-13 to Deep Space 4 to Deep Space 1 and then to C-4. Granted, the A-Wing Squad could move from C-13 to B-7 to B-8 to B-1, which essentially gets them to the other quadrant effectively, but this is a HUGE difference in terms of relative distance covered due to proximity to the planet.
2. Prevent players in "sliding" from one A-ring space, into the Atmosphere, and then back to an opposite A-Ring space.
3. Obey a relatively skewed sense of the Laws of Physics, with respect to science fiction, but still maintain some believability in those Laws. Einstein dammit!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 10:24:27 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2012, 01:45:01 AM »
Commander Parrault's Brigade

The ships moved closer to the enemy, observing as the battle between the other two hostiles breaks out.

Summary:
Moved from DS-3 to C-12 to C-13


Starfighter Group
   Location: C-13    Action: CSP    Armor: 576/576
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-001
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-002
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-001
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-002


Auxiliary Group
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-01
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-02
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-03
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-04
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-05
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-06
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-07
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-08
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-09
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-10
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-11
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-12
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-01
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-02
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-03
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-04
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-05
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-06
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-07
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-08
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-09
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-10
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-11
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-12
    Location: C-13    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20


Capital Ships
Strike-class Medium Cruiser Rosa Klebb
Location: C-13    Heading: C-14
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225


Strike-class Medium Cruiser Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Location: C-13    Heading: C-14
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225


IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Emilio Largo
Location: C-13    Heading: C-14
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75


IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Auric Goldfinger
Location: C-13    Heading: C-14
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75

« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:49:56 AM by Dementat »
(\/)ighty RE

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2012, 05:17:35 PM »
THE TION HEGEMONY PIRATES!
Fortuna Favet Audax | Fortune Favors The Bold
CAPT Bartholomew "The Dread Pirate" Roberts

<>

"Captain, we're under attack!"

"Dammit! Full screen!" The digitally enhanced viewport opened a zoomed in picture of the enemy vessel that was firing. A pair of Assault Frigates! "Argh! Those bastards must be out of range! They aren't even hitting us!"

"Captain, at that range Assault Frigates are more than capable of..."

"SILENCE!" shouted Roberts. "They're not shooting at us!"

At that moment the Tactical Officer began recieving reports of the support craft, going down one by one. The starfighters and shuttles began flying towards the RAFs to mount a counterattack, but by the time they made it to weapons range they had all been shot down.

"Well then, this is the game those Rebel pigs want to play, we'll show them the meaning of this ship's name... Argh! Set course 100 Mark 330, Sector B-8! Standby all gunners!"

"Aye captain!" replied the bridge crew.

The HMS Revenge moved closer to the system, where it would be in position to mount a full counter-attack on the Rebel pigs.

"Captain, we'll be in weapons range in less than 10 seconds," prompted the Tactical Officer.

"Very well. Full broadside on my mark..." the Captain clinched his fist, eager to punch the Rebels back, "...FIRE!!!"

<>

Post Summary
1. Starfighters and shuttles destroyed, and we unable to counterattack due to being out of range.
2. Ship moved from C-15 to B-8.
3. Attacked RAF HLS One.

<>

<> PBC HMS Revenge
Location: B-8 | Status: Attacking | UCR: 3
Shields: 1100/1100 | Armor: 1100/1100 | Hull: 650/650 | Systems: 650/650

>> Z-95 Headhunter Squadron Lion I
Location: * | Status: KIA | UCR: 5 | Shields: 000/144 | Armor: 000/144

>> Z-95 Headhunter Squadron Lion II
Location: * | Status: KIA | UCR: 5 | Shields: 000/144 | Armor: 000/144

>> Lambda-class Shuttle Royale I
Location: * | Status: KIA| UCR: 5 | Shields: 00/20 | Armor: 00/20

>> Lambda-class Shuttle Royale II
Location: * | Status: KIA | UCR: 5 | Shields: 00/20 | Armor: 00/20

<>

Attack Summary
1. PBC HMS Revenge fires 10 HQTLCs + 40 QLCs + 80 PTs @ RAF HLS One in C-16.
Damage: 800 x UCR (3/4) = 600 pts

<>
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 05:34:51 PM by GCW Hale »
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2012, 06:41:18 PM »
OOC Note: Your a dick Dem LMAO!! No not for what you've done, for what your planning right now, hahaha! Also I dont see anything anywhere in the rules about not being able to fire at you then move away, so im gunna do it and if you dont like it, say so, lol.

"All enemy fighter screens have been destroyed. The enemy ship is opening fire on us."
"All weapon batteries target that ship, move us to sector C-2. I want a continuous scan kept on that imperial fleet."

Summary:
Ships move from C-16 to C-1, then to C-2.

Attack Summary:
RAFs HLS One and Two vs PBC HMS Revenge
60HQLCs * 8 = 480
30HTLBs * 15 = 450
UCR = 4/3 = full damage = 930 total damage

Total damage to PBC HMS Revenge, 930pts.

Status: All craft in C-2
Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS One
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 100/700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS Two
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2012, 01:48:09 AM »
I'm not posting until we have a discussion about that move.
(\/)ighty RE

Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2012, 07:52:55 AM »
Excuse you?! In the last iteration of this game you used this exact move on me, you cant be serious. This is your tactic lmao!!

Offline Dementat

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2012, 09:21:54 AM »
Fire and then move? I think not. Where did I do that? I think you had it confused with return fire.
(\/)ighty RE

Offline SWSF Hale

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2012, 10:31:07 AM »
Currently in the rules the only provision concerning Fire & Movement is that diagonal fire and movement is not allowed; capital ships have a weapons range of 1; and that starfighters and aux have a weapons range of same-grid.

I looked over the development thread (which is hidden to ya'll) that Greg and I used and I saw no evidence of any other Fire & Movement discussion. In fact I remember in an AIM convo that being able to move-fire-move or fire-move-fire would add a some much needed nuance and complexity to space battle tactics to what is otherwise a simple post-and-blow combat game that GCW is already.

It's never fun when the tactic is used against you, but this makes choice of Fleet ships all that more important. This also allows smaller "filler" ships like NSBCs, RAFs, CORVs, CGUNs, LANCEs, and CRAKs to play a somewhat more important role in combat as opposed to simply being cannon fodder and slug throwers - since they carry little if no starfighter support.

Personally, I'm not a fan of fire-move-fire or move-fire-move, so this is what is allowable in my opinion:

MOVE and then FIRE, and you're done
or
FIRE and then MOVE, and you're done
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Offline Ramano

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Re: SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2012, 10:45:56 AM »
I swear to god this has been discussed before. I remember pulling for the fire-move-fire rules to be added. But either way, I did not do that in my post. I simply fired, then I moved away, I never moved before I fired.