Mocha II Talk

[Ramano]

I think cost of units needs some adjustment. Hale are you using a formula to arrive at a credit cost?

Equal cost fleets and the TF tech got housed... i mean we are essentially toasted and yall are at greater than half strength. It feels like whoever has to move and strike first gets boned?

Well... thats not entirely... accurate. We got hosed because i screwed up bad with the AP stuff. So fighters i planned to attack with ended up stuck in my hangers, and i had to move too far to make an effective attack because i didnt move far enough in my first post.

Id say give it a more fair chance. Lol. perhaps input any rule revisions that are needed or wanted and test again?

[SWSF Hoppus]

We still lost almost all
Our cap ships in two exchanges and they lost not even half. In AE cost was eye balled, poorly, and that led to inbalance. If we arent using a formula to assess real value we should, is all im sayin! 

[Ramano]

Well, on paper yeah i would agree with you. However, unless you are volunteering to create such a system, taking into account all the variables of the ships, thats a tall ask man. Lol. 

Then we are asking for even more ships on top of it...?

[SWSF Hale]

There was a master formula that was used. Cost has been fine-tuned based on everything UCR, DUR, DMG output, support units, etc.

You guys got hosed because you concentrated your forces in the same area, and because admittedly we spammed big guns.

One of you should have spammed DREADs. Just saying.

Battle would've been VERY different had one of you used 6 DREADs packed with 3 Droid SFs each. You could've spread out more too.


And remember, I made this game, and I chose to flag the TF! If that's not a vote of confidence for TF units, I don't know what is. lol

[SWSF Eidolon]

We could each move 1 ship (and associated support units) at a time.  In some ways it will take longer in other ways it will move quicker.




Are we truncating II orrrr?  Hale, I had inquired as to engagement rules, my AWs Purple and Violet survived but were Engaged by Vultures 26 and 27.  Those Vultures were destroyed in my latest post by attacks from RAFs.  Are my As still Engaged this turn or are they free?

[SWSF Hale]

One ship at a time would make this game very chessy!

[Ramano]

There was a master formula that was used. Cost has been fine-tuned based on everything UCR, DUR, DMG output, support units, etc.

You guys got hosed because you concentrated your forces in the same area, and because admittedly we spammed big guns.

One of you should have spammed DREADs. Just saying.

Battle would've been VERY different had one of you used 6 DREADs packed with 3 Droid SFs each. You could've spread out more too.

I believe i tried to admit fault for the loss, lol.

But this brings up a good point for exploitation. Perhaps a max per fleet limit on ships, like no more than 4 of any specific ship type, lest you run the risk of me showing up in 20 neb-bs, giggling. Which i did consider for a minute with the mock, lol.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Maybe thats so regarding big guns, but if i have to spam a unit to compete thats... not optimal? 

[SWSF Hale]

Another factor is that this was exclusively a space-only battle, and we were not factoring in an arbitrary amount of ground unit transports and such that would have accompanied the TF invasion force. This allowed us to spam space units.

Again, my TF fleet at Beta-launch was 2 PBC, 3 DREAD, 2 HHF. So if Mocha II was a real in-game battle, I probably would've sent 1 PBC + 3 DREAD. Even if I committed 2 PBC, I sincerely doubt the IR and NR would've had their 4-packs just chilling there.

But as ridiculous as the numbers and scale of Mocha II was, it has yielded us some valuable insights. I'm happy to bring it to a close and move to Mocha III, if you all would prefer?

[SWSF Eidolon]

But as ridiculous as the numbers and scale of Mocha II was, it has yielded us some valuable insights. I'm happy to bring it to a close and move to Mocha III, if you all would prefer?

I think the value of Mocha II has been drawn and finishing it is just ceremony at this point.  I had a bunch of fun though battling again already and am pretty optimistic about the bit of fine tuning it seems we have going on here and what comes after that.

Entirely agree with your points though Hale about the lack of ground invasion intent skewing the space battle experience.  I would even be down with considering a clause regarding Ground Battle/Invasion that trumps space battle- as in, if you win the Ground Battle and the Space Battle is still going on, the Battle is Over.  Its like Capture the Flag, no matter who survies, once the flag is captured, battle over.  This would potentially reap the benefit of added structure to both the process of Battle and the process of the Campaign.





- 1 Players ships per grid space
- Ground Invasion clause that ground victory ends Space Battle
- something for Fighters


  These small changes I think could possible clean up a ton of what we saw at Mocha II and what we worry about seeing in future.

  The space battle grid becomes a chess board for sure then, with the planet being the immobile King.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Yes, lets carry on to III.

I also think we should queue up a "realistic" setup. I think folks will design their factions differently than what seems obvious or optimal, and don't want that to tank the game.

I am happy to take part in III or in a IV that will be focused on a "realistic" engagement. I also am curious if you are open to adjusting universe/economics etc Hale (Eid and I hashed out some interesting ideas in this regard I am happy to pitch you), which might also adjust what a "realistic battle" looks like...

Woo! We are simming 😎

[Ramano]

if i may be so bold, perhaps a "matrix" training session. Blank map, 4 starting points, each of us design a fleet with set GC with the agreement no space fighting. We land troops and duke it out to hard test the rules. 

And so im clear on this, capships can not target troops/vehicles. But can starfighters? And can troops/vehicles target flying units?