GCWIII -- New Combat Model? Let's Mock!

[SWSF Hale]

That's the idea. A Master Character could be captured, but never killed. This avoids the "miracle escape pod" scenario. Similarly, a "lucky escape" scenario is on the table if a sacrifice is made, like when that TIE Pilot tried to take a hit for Vader in the Death Star trench.  Likewise, a Master Character could use a miracle escape pod, but at the cost of leaving their ship behind (which could be salvaged/refurbished into a stock unit or gutted for special tech).

Think of the Han Solo carbon freeze. Lando made a deal to save Leia (even though Vader altered it later). The sacrifice of getting them out of Cloud City was Cloud City itself (leaving in the hands of the Empire).

Regarding the PDTL scenario, if the mission fails, the Empire gains influence. The cost would've been casualties on your team, but that's it. Loss of influence shouldn't always translate to loss of material or tangible attrition.

[SWSF Eidolon]

    Awesome ideas and collective evolution of a thought so far guys.  I'm totally on board and stoked with this general direction.

[Ramano]

Ok, but let me ask this then. Whats the point in capturing someone that I cant kill? Interrogation is pointless as you know I cant kill your character, I know I cant kill your character, so why would you divulge anything. You just make the storyline that you would die before giving up information, and then you either get your miracle escape or I let you go. I really cant impress enough upon how much I dislike that idea. With no danger to your character there is no growth.

Also, with no way to take an influence penalty we run the risk of people gaining so much influence that they can field front line imperial war fleets, complete with multiple ISDs. Far fetched idea I understand, but still possible. And with a pure influence system, losing units doesnt really mean a whole lot. I will just build/design more. There needs to be a penalty for mission failure to keep it interesting and keep the game fluid.

[SWSF Hale]

Capturing a Master Character would be a huge Influence gain/loss. Probably dramatic enough to cause an entire campaign's tables to be turned.

I say we do a mock battle using customized CORVs. Use this template:


Corellian Corvette (CORV)
Cost: 350 KC
Production Time: 3 Days
Length: 150m
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 300
Armor: 225
Hull: 75
Systems: 75
Speed: 3
Maneuver: 4
UCR: 7
Launch Bays: 1
Weapons:
2 Dual Heavy Turbolaser Cannons (40)
4 Heavy Ion Cannons (16)
2 Concussion Missile Launchers (4)
1 Tractor Beam Projector (100m)

Here's the reference chart to determine baseline damage:
HTL = 10
TL = 8
HIC = 4
IC = 3
HLC = 2
LC = 1
-------------
APT = 4
PT = 3
ACM = 3
CM = 2

CORV = 60 Emplacement Points

"Warhead Shooter"
20 Concussion Missile Tubes

"Turbonator"
6 Heavy Turbolaser Cannons

Enhanced Weapons Overhaul
Cost: -10% Shields
Gain: +10% increase to base emplacement points

Gunship Overhaul
Cost: -10% Armor/-10% Hull/-10% Systems
Gain: +20% Emplacement Points

Assault Ship Overhaul
Cost: -2 UCR
Gain: +10% Emplacement Points

This is just cursory for now, but the idea is that we would introduce a paper-rock-scissors dynamic with the weapons and platforms.

Capital Ship CMs: +1 UCR, x2 Damage vs SF/AUX
Capital Ship PTs: -1 UCR, x2 Damage vs SF/AUX
Capital Ship Lasers: +1 UCR vs SF/AUX
Capital Ship TL/ICs: -1 UCR, x2 Damage vs SF/AUX


If you used both upgrades for the CORV, it would have -10% Shields/Armor/Hull/Systems & -2 UCR, but gain an additional +24 Emplacement Points, which can be converted into +3 TLs, or +12 CMs, etc. This would have direct tactical implications... as in, you could completely reconfigure a stock CORV into a Pirate CORV with 20 Ion Cannons! Sure, it wouldn't do much physical damage, but the sheer threat of a CORV that can dish out a big chunk of systems damage would surely make a battle interesting...

[Ramano]

But how many points is each weapon worth as far as emplacement points? Their damage? Well if I raise the damage on the weapon does that raise the points it takes up, even though its just an ability? And would those modification options be mutually exclusive, or can I take all 3 to bump the ship up to 86 emplacement points?

[SWSF Hale]

Weapon damage = emplacement points.

2 Dual Heavy Turbolasers do 40 damage, so that's 40 Emplacement Points.
I could covert the DHTLs into regular TLs, so 40/8 = 5.
So, the CORV would now have 5 TLs as opposed to 2 DHTLs.

By increasing the number of weapon emplacements, you can increase the number of targets.

2 DHTL would overkill 2 X-Wings, or you could split them into 8 TLs so that you could put a dent into 8 X-Wings.

I suppose multiple overhauls would be acceptable, but you'd have a pretty weak CORV!

[Ramano]

Question though, how did you turn an HTL into a TL? Those are completely separate weapon systems, lol.

[SWSF Hale]

You don't. The only way for the overhaul system to work is if we stick to "Weapon Damage = Emplacement Points". It keeps things balanced.

[Ramano]

Not sure if I like that system though. Cause no matter how you rearrange things, nothing changes on damage output. 60 points is 60 points. 2DHTLs still does the same damage as 4HTLs. Yeah I can target more things with it, but it still didnt change anything. The only thing that really matters with that system is which overhaul mod you pick.

[Ramano]

If you would like to give me a moment to finish it, I have a system im working that takes into account energy consumption by the individual systems and the space they take up on the ship to figure a point system for everything. Just bare with me, im working with math that doesnt even come in number format anymore. Trying to figure out % of energy consumption on a system that generates 3.6x10^37 kv of energy is not exactly a fast process without a super-computer handy, lol.

[Ramano]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sorry, brain broke. Had to be done.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get specific information like this on objects that dont really exist. ROFLMAO. That and what im seeing is, Star Wars didnt take energy output into account at all, because it takes more energy to fire a turbolaser then a venator class star destroyer generates total, lol. I may have to figure something else out here because realistically, under no amount of technology could these weapons exist, haha!!

[Ramano]

Ok, so I had to basically throw out the power consumption model as George Lucas doesnt know anything about energy physics. LMAO!! But using the size dimensions and the amount of weapons vs power generation on the ships, im pretty sure I got a close approximation and using the existing stats for a CRV, it worked out damn close. Ive got a CRV at 150 points, and the standard model using the stuff I worked up clocks in at 142/150, and as we all know the CRV is a fairly inefficient ship, that sounds spot on. Let me know what you think. Also keep in mind, im not sure exactly what a UCR is, but judging by how you were using it im assuming it has something to do with how well it can target something. So all depending, those may need to be adjusted accordingly.

Corellian Corvette (CORV)
Cost: 350 KC
Production Time: 3 Days
Length: 150m
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 300
Armor: 225
Hull: 75
Systems: 75
Speed: 3
Maneuver: 4
UCR: 7
Launch Bays: 1
Weapons:
2 Dual Heavy Turbolaser Cannons (40)
4 Heavy Ion Cannons (16)
2 Concussion Missile Launchers (4)
1 Tractor Beam Projector (100m)


Corellian Corevette
Length: 150m (150 space points)
Shields: x2 300 (-30)
Hull: x2 300 (-30)
Systems: .5x length
Speed: base 3
Maneuver: base 4
UCR: base 7
Weapons:
2 DHTLs (-40)
4 HICs (-32)
2 CMs (-10)


Shield Generator - adds shield strength to a ship
Space Cost: .1 x length
Notes: Adds 1x length in shield points

Hull Armor - add hull strength to a ship (Must be added to all ships)
Space cost: .1x length
Notes: adds 1x length in hull points

Engine Power - add speed to a ship
Space Cost: .05x length
Notes: adds +1 to speed

Maneuvering Jets - adds maneuver to a ship
Space Cost: .05x length
Notes: adds +1 to maneuver

Heavy Turbolaser
Space Cost: 10
Notes: Does 8 damage, -1UCR and .5x damage vs starfighters

Turbolaser
Space Cost: 8
Notes: Does 5 damage, -1UCR vs starfighters

Heavy Ion Cannon
Space Cost: 8
Notes: Does 5 system damage, does 1 damage vs shields, -1UCR vs starfighters. Does not effect hull.

Ion Cannon
Space Cost: 5
Notes: Does 3 system damage, does 1 damage vs shields. Does not effect hull.

Heavy Laser Cannon
Space Cost: 3
Notes: Does 2 damage, does 2x damage vs starfighters, may target warheads.

Laser Cannon
Space Cost: 2
Notes: Does 1 damage, +1UCR and 2x damage vs starfighters, may target warheads.

Advanced Proton Torpedo
Space Cost: 10
Notes: Does 10 damage, -1UCR vs starfighters, takes 10pts to destroy.

Proton Torpedo
Space Cost: 8
Notes: Does 8 damage, -2UCR vs starfighters, takes 5pts to destroy.

Advanced Concussion Missile
Space Cost: 7
Notes: Does 5 damage, +2UCR, takes 5pts to destroy, may target warheads.

Concussion Missile
Space Cost: 5
Notes: Does 3 damage, +1UCR, takes 3pts to destroy, may target warheads.

[SWSF Hale]

Bro. Overkill. What you're getting into is basically a system where we can just completely overhaul/customize a ship from the ground up and take it to a point where it no longer resembles the original. That's not the intent.

Yes, in theory, one could completely gut out a CORV and turn it into the most badass warship ever. They did this. It's called a CGUN.

The point with the weapons overhaul system is that minor adjustments to the stock complement can be made. Yes, overall damage will remain the same, but how it's applied changes. 6 Dual Heavy TLs vs 20 Ion Cannons vs 30 Concussion Missile Tubes give completely different tactical advantages without radically changing what the CORV is to begin with. That's the idea.

Turbo-CORV would be excellent vs other capital ships, like the Tantive IV.
Ion-CORV would be a great pirate ship, that could be used to disable rather than destroy vessels.
Missile-CORV would make a great anti-SF platform.

At the end of the day, it's still a CORV, not some 150meter Frankenstein that has been dismantled and reassembled into a God of War.

[Ramano]

Yeah, thats what I was talking about in the beginning. Starwars ships, unless you were in the empire, were rarely stock units. As my examples before, the Rebel Assault Frigate was a luxury transport ship outfitted with as many guns as they could fit on it, at the expense of EVERYTHING else. The YT-1300 doesnt even come stock with guns, but the Millenium Falcon has 2 heavy quad lasers and a retractable blaster turret. There really was no such thing as a "stock" vessel in StarWars. And in truth I was thinking of going the opposite way with it. Quad layer shields and a triple thick hull, and drop all the weapons but the 2 DHTLs.

[SWSF Hale]

Again, in theory, yes, we could do whatever we want. But simply to maintain the integrity of traditional gaming specs, I think we should adopt a fairly conservative spec system. We're recreating Armada/X-Wing in a hexgrid format with GCW specs and a few liberties to smooth everything over.