SPACE BATTLE SIMULATOR

[SWSF Hale]

I think this must have came up in AE... Fire & Movement has always been a hot topic in every sim, even back in the day.

Move then Fire & Fire then Move has (as I remember) been the "standard" ruling.

[Ramano]

I am in favor of the "either or" system. You can move then fire OR fire then move, but not both. Both as in a fire-move-fire system.

[SWSF Hale]

THE TION HEGEMONY PIRATES!
Fortuna Favet Audax | Fortune Favors The Bold
CAPT Bartholomew "The Dread Pirate" Roberts

<>

The bridge of the HMS Revenge as it took incoming fire from the pair of assault frigates in high orbit. Their attack was well calculated, as the Rebel Pigs also chose to "open datum" by moving away from the action.

"Hmmm... so it appears these Rebel Pigs know a thing or two about fleet maneuvers," pondered the Captain. "But what they don't know is that I have studied under Lord Admiral Nelson himself, and I have a few tricks up my sleeve..."

"What do you plan on doing, captain?" asked the first mate.

"It's not what I plan on doing - it's what I've already done that counts..." replied the captain.

Confused the first mate asked, "What are your orders, captain?"

"All ahead full, steady course 000 Mark 015, Sector B-1," ordered Roberts.

"All ahead full, steady course 000 Mark 015, Sector B-1, aye captain" replied the Helmsman.

Once the HMS Revenge was in position, it unleashed another broadside on the hapless assault frigate, hoping this time to score a wounding blow.

<>

Post Summary
1. Ship moved from B-8 to B-1.
2. Attacked RAF HLS One.

<>

<> PBC HMS Revenge
Location: B-1 | Status: Attacking | UCR: 3
Shields: 0170/1100 | Armor: 1100/1100 | Hull: 650/650 | Systems: 650/650

<>

Attack Summary
1. PBC HMS Revenge fires 10 HQTLCs + 40 QLCs + 80 PTs @ RAF HLS One in C-2.
Damage: 800 x UCR (3/4) = 600 pts

<>

[Ramano]

"Sir the pirate vessel has slid into a lower orbit and swung around below us."
"Crafty bastard. Continue the assault, move the One out of weapons range. Move the Two directly on top of him. Its time to let him know who he's dealing with."

Summary:
Attacked
Moved

Attack Summary:
RAFs HLS One and Two vs PBC HMS Revenge
60HQLCs * 8 = 480
30HTLBs * 15 = 450
UCR = 4/3 = full damage = 930 total damage

Total damage to PBC HMS Revenge, 930pts.

Status:
Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS One (Deepspace)
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 0/700
Armor: 200/700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS Two (C-2)
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

[Dementat]

*So if you can fire, then move, what happens to return fire? Don't we allow ships a dying breath because of the action being simultaneous? Is this now negated?*

Commander Parrault's Brigade

"Sir, one of the rebel frigates has moved to deep space. The other is still exchanging fire with the pirate cruiser." Commander Parrault sat back in his chair and focused on the field. "There is no possible way to prevent that frigate from going to hyperspace. Move us closer to the planet. Recall our auxiliary craft and begin loading them."

Summary:
Moved from C-13 to B-7 to A-4.
Auxiliary recalled and loading troops.

Starfighter Group
   Location: A-4    Action: CSP    Armor: 576/576
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-001
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-002
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-001
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-002

Auxiliary Group
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-01
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-02
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-03
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-04
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-05
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-06
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-07
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-08
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-09
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-10
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-11
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-12
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-01
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-02
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-03
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-04
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-05
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-06
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-07
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-08
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-09
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-10
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-11
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-12
    Location: Hangar    Action: N/A    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20

Capital Ships
Strike-class Medium Cruiser Rosa Klebb
Location: A-4    Heading: A-1
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225
Troops: 300 Fleet Trooper Squads

Strike-class Medium Cruiser Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Location: A-4    Heading: A-1
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225
Troops: 300 Fleet Trooper Squads

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Emilio Largo
Location: A-4    Heading: A-1
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Auric Goldfinger
Location: A-4    Heading: A-1
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75

[Ramano]

There is still return fire, this just kind of signifies that ships didnt just stop in the middle of the field and start shooting at each other. Movement during combat very much was a part of it. If he were to quit pushing the attack on me, I would have to move to him to attack him, and in doing so, after my firing I would not be able to move away allowing him his return fire. So its not that return fire is effected so much as hale is choosing to use inferior tactics in this fight.

Also, you have to keep in mind im not using any of my fighters/aux either, thus I dont need to be in the same grid with him to kill his stuff. Had it been fighters and what not attacking, there would still be stuff there to return fire against.

Furthermore, Dem, what is your angle on this. I know your good enough to clearly see what was happening with my tactics, and I also know your good enough to know easily how to counteract it. So I ask again, what is your real argument on this? Not to mention this is a classic textbook political move commonly used by the NRA. Take an issue thats not really an issue and blow it out of proportion so people fear it. Example: We need guns to protect ourselves and our families from all the dangerous criminals that exist. They make it sound like we live in the wild west for god sake, lol. You are using this same tactic right now, so im curious to find out why?

[SWSF Hale]

I think the "angle" is to have ONE rule for Fire & Movement that is the same for regular posts as well as death actions, which I can kinda see the need for now. The idea is that if one round lasts 24 hours, and that all posts happen simultaneously within that round, then even things that took enough damage to be destroyed can still move and fire normally. If this is the case, it would still be possible to outmaneuver a ship with lesser speed, as you have demonstrated Ramano with the RAF. There's no way with my Slow PBR beer-can battlecruiser that I'd ever be able to land more than a couple broadsides until you wised up and moved away.

If we let dying ships be able to move (even starfighters), the following scenario could happen:
1. RAF in C-2 attacks a VSD in C-1, and then moves to C-4.
2. The VSD is helplessly out of range, as with (1) Speed it can only move to C-2 and then with a weapons range of (1), reaching to C-3, it would still be unable to counterattack the RAF.

So in this scenario, the RAF got a full broadside off "for free", but at the same time showcases the necessity that even dying ships should be able to move. If the VSD was destroyed, it would simply be a damn shame if it wasn't able to move - even if moving wouldn't make a difference... but let's say that it would make a difference... let's say the RAF was attacking a VSD-II instead with (2) Speed. If the VSD-II could make the shot, shouldn't we allow for it in the rules?

[Ramano]

I guess I got a bit too advanced in that post. I was trying to nicely say that Dem, your not even making an argument for anything anymore, when ever something happens you dont like you just kind of... I dont know... whine a little and make it look like you have no ambition to play. If you truly feel something is stupid or messed up, make an argument for it. We are doing a lot of bickering yes but everyone is listening.

[Dementat]

Not at all, I'm only trying to help improve the game. For some reason I've been having difficulty following the rules. I don't have a problem with the fire and move, I was just curious how it affected return fire. I think I've just been tired this week.

So am I understanding correctly now?

1 RAF and 1 CRV in B-2 fire on a DREAD and it's CSP in B-3, then move to B-8.
DREAD is unable to return fire, even if it moves, due to range.
The CSP, even if destroyed, can move to B-8 and fire before being deleted from your status?

[Ramano]

Yes that is correct. Everything gets full movement during return fire now.

[SWSF Hale]

I will update this in the Episode II Rules Reference.

This makes Speed + Weapon Range an important consideration for your Fleet... as well as tactics. We have a "small" space grid but a very unique one in terms of tactical possibilities.

Should be fun now.

[Ramano]

OOC Note: Ok I waited and waited, and dam it I wanna post! I was being nice and waiting, but boredum has gotten the better of me. And dont worry Dem, ill be down for you in a minute, we fight this to the bitter end.

One last volly into the PBC and the RAF moved to meet its sister ship in DS.

Summary:
Attacked
Moved

Attack Summary:
RAF Two vs PBC Revenge
30HQLCs * 8 = 240
15HTLBs * 15 = 225
UCR = 4/3 = full damage = 460 total damage

Total damage to PBC Revenge, 460pts (Combined with my last attack, and the fact you can only get to the C-grid and c-grid can not attack DS according to the rules, you can either poof and die, or move and fire off a last volly into Dem for me, lol)

Status:
Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS One (Deepspace)
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 0/700
Armor: 200/700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

Republic Assault Frigate (RAF) HLS Two (Deepspace)
Cost: 600 KCs
Production Time: 6 Days
Length: 700 meters
Hyperdrive: x1
Shields: 700
Armor: 700
Hull: 350
Systems: 350
Speed: Fast (2)
Maneuver: (2)
Weapons:
15 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (225)
30 Heavy Quad Laser Cannons (240)
Onboard Units:
1 Z-95 Squadron (Hanger)
2 Lambda Shuttles (Hanger)

[SWSF Hale]

PBC Blows up.

[Ramano]

-sniffles- You couldnt even fire a turbolaser at him?!?!?!?!! lol.

[Dementat]

Commander Parrault's Brigade

Commander Parrault ordered his fleet to close distance with the enemy, bringing them around the planet in a slingshot maneuver and out to half-distance. The auxiliary were then launched and ordered to move out into deep space, where they engaged the enemy. One of the rebel ships would be disabled, leaving the other to play with the two small cruisers.

Summary:
Moved from A-4 to A-1 to B-1.
Launched auxiliary.
Auxiliary move from B-1 to C-1 to DS-1 and attack.

12 Lambda Shuttles vs. RAF HLS One
72 Laser Batteries = 216 dmg
UCR: 5/4 = 100% Damage = 216 MANDATORY

12 Lambda Shuttles vs. RAF HLS Two
72 Laser Batteries = 216 dmg
UCR: 5/4 = 100% Damage = 216 MANDATORY

Starfighter Group
   Location: B-1    Action: CSP    Armor: 576/576
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-001
TIE Fighter Squadron RK-002
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-001
TIE Fighter Squadron ESB-002

Auxiliary Group
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-01
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-02
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-03
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-04
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-05
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-06
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-07
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-08
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-09
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-10
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-11
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle RK-12
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-01
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-02
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-03
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-04
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-05
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-06
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-07
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-08
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-09
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-10
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-11
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20
Lambda-class Assault Shuttle ESB-12
    Location: DS-1    Action: Attack    Armor: 20/20    Shields: 20/20

Capital Ships
Strike-class Medium Cruiser Rosa Klebb
Location: B-1    Heading: C-1
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225
Troops: 300 Fleet Trooper Squads

Strike-class Medium Cruiser Ernst Stavro Blofeld
Location: B-1    Heading: C-1
Shields: 450/450    Armor: 450/450    Hull: 225/225    Systems: 225/225
Troops: 300 Fleet Trooper Squads

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Emilio Largo
Location: B-1    Heading: C-1
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75

IPV-1 Imperial Patrol Vessel Auric Goldfinger
Location: B-1    Heading: C-1
Shields: 150/150    Armor: 150/150    Hull: 75/75    Systems: 75/75