OOC Chat

[Syren]

Oh, you boys. 

[SWSF Eidolon]

After making and deleting a bunch of posts I've finally come to the rational conclusion. .

Forget it, I don't want any decision made based on my opinions, never did, I wanted YOU GUYS to see the point of what me and Greg were saying.  Ramano has reaffirmed my pre-existing belief that I can't possibly partake in anything he is involved in.  I was knowingly lowering my standards by playing a game with him to begin with, and I should have known better.  He's the worst kind of insufferable human being I can think of.

Compulsive liar, clinically narcissistic, sociopathic tendencies.  No thanks.  I've seen and heard enough.

Sorry for wasting time!  I don't know how you guys do it, but my hat goes off to you for being able to troop through it.  There's simply too much of my time I want to lovingly invest in this game, but his presence sours it all for me and I was foolish to believe I could stomach it, so in everyone's interest I willfully withdraw my participation in GCW.

Consider all my activity in benefit to Greg's NR Faction.  MC90 PDFed at Raxus unless he wants to move it to Yavin.  Raxus Diplomacy I will finish to any level he asks me to if that's fine with the rest of the gang.

[Ramano]

LMAO seriously, your the one crying like a spoiled teenager. How the hell can you say I caused this, I made 2 posts concerning it, both long after your entire argument, and both pertaining to HALES ruling. Shut up dude seriously, im not the problem, you are. Lest we forget the 2 pages of posts preceding this all but 3 from you. Dont even go there dude.

Edit: Dont use me as your scapegoat this time, not only am I not having it, its not my god damn fault this time. If you want to quit, you go ahead and do that as it is well with in your rights, but dont you dare sit here and try and pawn it off on me. You quit its fully on you.

Edit Edit: And not only that, I can prove it this time. Since June 26th you've made 89 posts, ALL of them complaining about something, or telling me its my fault the country is broken. You've actively tried to make sure there is no alliance between me and Hop, and you've been just as insulting and childish as I ever was. So please, either sit down and play the damn game and come join me in killing Coruscant, or quietly stop posting. But this is on you this time my friend.

[SWSF Eidolon]

didn't say you caused it, said I can't stand you so much it ruins whole experience for me, I tried to view you in sugar coatings and with grains of salt, but ultimately me and you, don't mix.  Water and oil.

The happiest I was in any exchange we had was when you said you were older than me, because it gave me hope that maybe you would die first and then I could SIM again when I'm 60.  I'm barely even joking, can't help it.  I'm not playing any game you're involved in.  Observing you in action is like drinking mercury to my soul.  You were here first, I'm bowing out.  Don't take it personal, I'm not.

You and me, that issue has nothing to do with the debate on MISSIONs etc.  If you want to think it does, by all means embrace that.  I consider that matter closed and won't respond to you directly any more because that is the very reason I'm withdrawing, just offering you a final explanation.

[Ramano]

So in other words what your saying is the whole reason you even joined the game was to try an sabotage my faction, when that didnt work, you tried to piss me off into quitting, and now that you know that isnt going to work either, you decided you never wanted to play in the first place and we know you were just here to troll people... Wow, and you say im the issue around here...

And if your saying the debate on the missions is not the issue then really, your that childish? I dont particularly like you either but I was still willing to be an adult and play like a normal person. Wow dude, wow.

Edit: While we are on the subject I guess here, is there anyone else who only joined to try and sabotage me? I mean seriously, I thought it was funny the sudden surge of activity after I showed a spark of interest, but hey. Either way, can we get this out of the way now so we can make sure we got the planets and factions situated right. Please remember, your not effecting me in the least, I can work around whatever you guys do to the rules, but your ruining the game for the rest of the people here that actually DO want to play, and dont care if im here or not so long as im playing nice.

[Ramano]

Anyway, back to business, seeing as the rules were changed for Eid and he was just here to cause problems anyway, can we get into a serious discussion about doing away with the mission system and just going to a more Storyline oriented system for actions in the game? As I pointed out earlier, the mission system puts I feel too much structure to the game, turning it from an RPG to an RTS. With all due respect, if I just wanted to play an RTS I could put in StarCraft, Age of Empires, or Empire at War. Now please, correct me if im wrong, but I was under the impression people joined for an RPG experience, Dungeons & Dragons but star wars based.

Now also, dont get me wrong, im not saying im gunna go crying somewhere and quit if things stay as is, but with an RTS it basically renders storylining irrelevant outside of meeting the milestones for missions, which as we've seen most people are doing with as little as a 3 line paragraph. Wheres the character building, wheres the drive to continue the story? This current system has us basically just sitting around until we get all lv5 ships then just go beat on each other. Mark my words, it wont be as fun or interesting to keep track of. The difference between getting intricate SLs to read, and just staring blankly at expense documents.

[SWSF Eidolon]

 No, it's like I said, I just can't stand you, in all ways and forms.  I don't turn on FOX NEWs because it just pisses me off, why place my self in an aggravating situation?  If it's Childish to remove yourself from a situation you can't stand to be in because of people in it, OK.  I've turned down promotions because I don't want to work with particular people.  It's not that I don't realize severe tendencies in my own identity, it's that me being me and you being you, doesn't work for me.  And I'm not going to not be me, so I'll let you be you.

  I don't think it appropriate for you to leave when you were here first and I'm the one that can't stomach you, so I'm being logical and removing myself.  If you want to keep running your mouth and not making any sense as you normally always do, proceed.

   if I'm pissing anyone else off, my sincere apologies.  Not at all my intent.  I knew who I was dealing with and I made the mistake of thinking I'd be able to co-exist.  I can't.  So it's me, not him.  I genuinely wish all luck and i hope GCW goes to full term and someone conquers Coruscant! =)

[Ramano]

Yeah, whatever, so anyway, for the people who are playing, any thoughts on my ideas?

[Syren]

Wow. It's come to blows already. Eid, if you have withdrawn from GCW but still wish to continue simming, I'm sure there is plenty of room for you within the universe and storyline Medivh and I have created. Just something to think about.

[SWSF Hale]

Well now that the universe has exploded over a minor rules quibble, how about this:

Exception Storyline Award
To be determined by GM Hale. The Award will reduce an individual Milestone by 3 Days. This award is a once-per-mission and applies for the next Milestone after the award is given.

Fuck you guys. 

[Dementat]

This makes me sad. Eidolon, I hope you reconsider. You do not need to interact with him.

Hale, does Brentaal IV qualify for that 3 day reduction???

[SWSF Hoppus]

I like the original rules and missions. Why cant we just follow them? Everyone was following them. Then ramano did that crazy shit at bespon. The ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered dantooine. Then ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered myrkyr. Everyone else had posted clearly their intentions to do a mission. This is literally an issue of 1 person famous for bending and straining rules doing just that, followed by the gm not stepping up and being clear about the rules and how they are to be followed and instead avoiding the issue and supplying vagaries about not wanting to limit creativity, as if that was an issue. That is what happened here, and why jay reasonably doesnt want to continue, because we all know this will happen again as soon as there is a battle or ram tries to get away with something else that to him seems
perfectly reasonable.

[GallPizi]

I like the original rules and missions. Why cant we just follow them? Everyone was following them. Then ramano did that crazy shit at bespon. The ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered dantooine. Then ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered myrkyr. Everyone else had posted clearly their intentions to do a mission. This is literally an issue of 1 person famous for bending and straining rules doing just that, followed by the gm not stepping up and being clear about the rules and how they are to be followed and instead avoiding the issue and supplying vagaries about not wanting to limit creativity, as if that was an issue. That is what happened here, and why jay reasonably doesnt want to continue, because we all know this will happen again as soon as there is a battle or ram tries to get away with something else that to him seems
perfectly reasonable.

Agreed. I am no the GM of this game, Hale is, but I am now considered a moderator of this forum and I have said for years that a certain individual caused way too much strife. I take full responsibility for bringing him into this universe since I PMed him awhile ago when I was trying to get some, any, activity here. I quit a sim once due to him, I am not going to do it again but I see why people do it.

The way I see things here, this is what was trying to happen.

You had missions. You got benefits for doing things the mission way and you DID NOT LOSE UNITS doing it. If you did not want a benefit, you could invade a planet and risk losing units(like a player invading Kuat for example. Good luck).   This being said, that second piece about invading with no benefits was NEVER CLEARLY STATED IN THE RULES. Hence the confusion I believe.

And then, as was said. A certain individual steps in and starts surrendering things.

Ramano. I may not be able to ban you from the specific sim however if you continue to cause strife, or respond to this message by cursing me out I will have you banned from the entire Forum.

Eid, knowing that Ramano will be around(For as long as he behaves that is) will you come back?

Hale, moving forward, can we go by the logic I just stated. No player can start surrendering planets to other players until at least one week has passed sound fair?

Thank you.

[SWSF Hale]

I like the original rules and missions. Why cant we just follow them? Everyone was following them. Then ramano did that crazy shit at bespon. The ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered dantooine. Then ramano stepped in uninvited and surrendered myrkyr. Everyone else had posted clearly their intentions to do a mission. This is literally an issue of 1 person famous for bending and straining rules doing just that, followed by the gm not stepping up and being clear about the rules and how they are to be followed and instead avoiding the issue and supplying vagaries about not wanting to limit creativity, as if that was an issue.

I don't know if the situation is that bad, honestly. I voided Ramano's crazy shit at Bespin and made him battle it out instead, although Dementat crunched the numbers and didn't feel like battling it out - and I certainly didn't have the time either to intervene and force a battle, so I let it slide. I also publicly denounced what happened at Bespin after the fact and said I don't want to see any more surrendering.

Dantooine was a Barren World and was wide-open for subjugation per description of a Barren World, which I quote:

Barren World (Players can visit this world, build facilities, and conduct any other operations without impedance.)

...Which effectively translates to "no conquest or diplomacy needed". Ramano surrendering the planet was uninvited yes, but it was also pointless and unnecessary. The same can be said about Myrkr. It's a Barren World. But did I allow Ramano's interruption to set some kind of precedent? NO, I didn't. I voided and deleted his post after a 24 hour public notice.

Does everyone see what's going on here? We had players that wanted to take over another system without having to do the mission, which for shits and giggles lets go and see what the Rules say about Missions:

Missions
Much like an RPG Quest, Missions will be specialized tasks that Hero Units can seek to accomplish in order to gain more notoriety, immense wealth, strategic power, or perhaps even win the game! They will often involve traveling to numerous planets, completing specific objectives, and then finally reaching a climax where the mission is completed. Each Hero will have a specific Mission related to their class that is repeatable so long as Mission Milestones are completed. Note: Only (1) Mission can be active at any time.

Is there any language in this description that would suggest Missions are mandatory? Or the exclusive means to completing a goal?

That is what happened here, and why jay reasonably doesnt want to continue, because we all know this will happen again as soon as there is a battle or ram tries to get away with something else that to him seems perfectly reasonable.

Do you want to know what really happened? --- Whenever a player wanted to move on another system, they contacted me via PM asking "hey Hale, is there anyway I can do this without the mission?" and my answer was "yes, you can take over a planet using conventional methods but you wont get the bonuses from the Mission because you aren't on the Mission". Dem and Ramano asked about this. You guys didn't because of your commitment to capture worlds using Diplomacy only, and since no "conventional fast-track" method existed prior to this shitstorm, Jay threw up the bullshit flag because other players weren't using Conquest when it was their prerogative not to in the first place. That is what happened.

Don't put this all on Ramano either, because I have corrected him on every occasion of rules infringement since Dantooine publicly and he has more than been compliant in the process because it's usually a situation of misunderstanding the rules rather than deliberate attempts to bend them. You may call me a fool for seeing it that way, but I am just as skeptical about Ramano as anyone else here.

Here's my plan for everybody:
1. Grow up.
2. Re-read the rules. Get back to me about anything you don't understand. I'll fix it and announce it on the Q&A thread if necessary.
3. Play by the rules to the letter. By the looks of it now we have a pretty good set of them with a Mission for every method to take over a conquest and an Award to reward exceptional storylines for completing mission milestones. What more do you want? It's all there now.
4. Get back into the game and play.
5. Have fun.

[SWSF Hoppus]

All right Hale, fair enough. And I apologize, Ramano, if I try to pin everything on you, but I was disappointed that when I looked at it, you were present in every situation. But I did not know what happened or was discussed via PM. Hale, fair enough you corrected the overstepping Bespin situation.

I can live with this and carry on, so long as we official drop this topic form here forward. We can return to the original format. Missions are optional, you can always just attack and after destroying all units, you can build on the planet or whatever. If people want to surrender, I only ask that they draw it out in a few back and forth SLs, short or not, so that a system can't be taken by force instantly AND that any surrendered units are lost units, which seems fair?

Cool. Hopefully we can move forward.