OOC Chat

[SWSF Hale]

Ramano brings up a good point in terms of game administration. The planet list as is pretty long and it might be difficult to keep track of all the bombardments. Granted, I'm not planning on nuking an entire world, but there's really nothing stopping me from bombarding one or even two Ground grids if it only takes a few weeks, and nobody answers the distress call...

This version of the game is meant to be "automated" to such an extent that we don't need GMs, just a clear and concise Rulebook that has all the answers.

In light of this, despite the fact that I think Orbital Bombardment would be a cool element to add.. my official stance is to strike it from the rules. I know Ramano would prefer this. And Hop, I know you're either way, so how about we just be done with it?

If you wanna take over a world, you gotta get your feet wet.

[Ramano]

Well that and it adds an element to the game that no other sim has ever really had before, which is ground combat is a must. Unless you can talk the person into surrendering, you have no choice. It separates us from every other sim thats ever been.

[SWSF Hoppus]

I'm fine with it, but this still doesn't prevent a VNSD entering the ground grid and hovering over units and destroying them without really having 'ground combat'. Though true, the ground can open fire in response...  8)

[Ramano]

Which yes a person could in theory still do, but like you said, you can open fire back, now, with even 250 squads of republic commandos im gunna take 1 shot with each of them and bomb the bottom out of that VNSD. 5000pts in 1 shot, VNSD has no such armor/shields/hull combined. Which if you got a ship thats about to die anyway, might be worth doing, but otherwise it would be pretty dumb unless the troops your going against cant damage armor, such as republic fleet marines.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Well it would be 250 squads * 0.2 = 50 damage ... and a VNSD can handle that. But if there were some T-47s... 20 of those could dish 500, which is more of a concern for the VNSD.

[Ramano]

Err... yeah, your right, we nuked the ground units by /10. Forgot to figure that in haha. But yeah, either way, its something that can be done, is effective to do, but not so much that the ground units are defenseless, so you have to make sure their death post cant kill you in the process. And more importantly, doesnt involve having to come up with a new set of rules or modifiers for bombardments. Not to mention gives that "Can enter the atmosphere" ability a use as well.

I also thought of something else. By only allowing ships that can enter the atmosphere participate in ground combat, that finally gives a weakness to that big ass ISD I and II without actually hurting it. Yeah, it is the king of the galaxy, but you can hide from it on a planet and make him actually use that huge troop compliment. I mean ok, not allowing the ISD to bomb a planet is kinda rediculous but as I said, its just too complicated to add to the game without coming up with a whole rule-set for it, which then leaves room for interpretation, which means we need a GM. Simply one of those area's where we have to sacrifice realism for workable game mechanics.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Personally I'd like to see Orbital Bombardment stick.  I have no plans to raze planetary surfaces unless it were to really serve some overarching story purpose as well as finite strategical value.  Perhaps add Income penalties to razed planets in some fashion to add an element of negative value to discourage razing a planet you might want to actually keep and build up.  Building penalties or whatever.

I'm never in favor of remove facets of gameplay, the more options the better.  Just my opinion.

If you have to spend the better part of a month or more, thats plenty of time for people to coordinate to spank your ass, knowing you're planning on being in the same place for so long.  As a guide, how can you justify razing a planet if you're NR or RA anyways?  It's pretty much a ruthless imp tactic.  You're not serving the cause of galactic liberty by blowing up planets.  *shrug* just other thoughts to consider.

[Ramano]

And for the record, if im trying to argue a point, and you can clearly see the point im trying to make, but it came off too tactless, feel free to re-word that for me. Many times I have a valid point to make but lack the verbal articulation to explain it without coming across as an insulting pompous prick. Picture a person from the trailer park sitting down at an upscale dinner with a bunch of 1%'ers. Yeah I got a good point, but only enough vocabulary to communicate at, like syren says, a neanderthaulic level. As some would say, all intelligence, no wisdom. So yeah, if I say im not trying to be offensive, I really do mean it, even if I still come across that way, and like I said, if someone can find better wording, feel free to re-word it. Trust me when I say, if im trying to offend you, you wont be able to mistake it. lol

[SWSF Hale]

Remember the Mandalorian Liberation Army Flashpoint?? I damn near destroyed the landed Mandalorian VNSD with those AT-ATs!!

Perhaps we can change the rule to Atmospheric Bombardment? This way capital ships can participate in ground combat in some limited fashion.

Atmospheric Bombardment & Surface-to-Air Combat
Ships that can enter the atmosphere can fire on ground targets in the related Ground Grid. All energy-based weapon attacks become UCR 1 because of parallax targeting errors and weapon arc alignment difficulties. Warheads take no penalty. While ships are in the atmosphere, ground units can attack them normally. Damage is dealt as if the capital ships were vehicles.

And now one last attempt... Orbital Bombardment is no longer a damaging attack... it is simply a status modifier. It also counters a potential General's ability to move from one grid to the next with his troops, adding some nuance to that as well.

Orbital Bombardment
This is a special space-based attack that Star Destroyers, Mon Calamari Cruisers, and other designated ships (see specs) can perform that is a broad area attack designed to destroy terrain and cause fear. Bombardment requires that the listed ships must fire ALL weapons to the ground while they are in the adjacent A-Ring grid space. While Orbital Bombardment is in progress, infantry and vehicles cannot move to or from the Ground Grid being bombarded, and all ground units suffer a -1 UCR penalty (including friendly units) because of the hazardous conditions. This effect lasts for 24 hours after the player posts his ship commencing Orbital Bombardment.

I believe this should handle it?

[Ramano]

Personally I'd like to see Orbital Bombardment stick. �I have no plans to raze planetary surfaces unless it were to really serve some overarching story purpose as well as finite strategical value. �Perhaps add Income penalties to razed planets in some fashion to add an element of negative value to discourage razing a planet you might want to actually keep and build up. �Building penalties or whatever.

I'm never in favor of remove facets of gameplay, the more options the better. �Just my opinion.

If you have to spend the better part of a month or more, thats plenty of time for people to coordinate to spank your ass, knowing you're planning on being in the same place for so long.� As a guide, how can you justify razing a planet if you're NR or RA anyways?� It's pretty much a ruthless imp tactic.� You're not serving the cause of galactic liberty by blowing up planets.� *shrug* just other thoughts to consider.

Do recall I had an NR character that killed a quarter of the population of coruscant. Rebel or Imperial is the same as saying Democrat or Republican, literally. I could show you many examples of imperial genocide tactics employed by republic members. There is no law that says a rebel player cant act like an imperial tyrant.

[Ramano]

I like the atmospheric bombardment rules, but I stick by the original of not allowing orbital bombardment. Lets face it, that is simply a lazy way of handling ground combat. If your not trying to destroy the surface of a world, whats the point of it then? To fight ground troops without having to actually go to the ground, which is the whole point of NOT allowing orbital bombardment in the first place.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Do recall I had an NR character that killed a quarter of the population of coruscant.

   Sounds awful

Rebel or Imperial is the same as saying Democrat or Republican, literally.

  Depends how you want to look at it.  If the NR is a proxy for the Light Side of the force and the Empire is a proxy for the Dark Side, then they do have a scripted ideology to which each ought to stick.  Beneath the surface of Political Ideals, Nationalism, Specie-ism, it is the clash of Light and Dark the drives the SW Universe at all times.

  Not trying to have a debate though, whatever Hale does with it is fine

[Ramano]

Oh no, I see what your saying, but its more of a Jedi/Sith thing then rebel/imperial. The jedi fight for the rebels because their ideals fall more in line, but if you look throughout the history of SW, many times the jedi split from the republic due to differing ideals, the mandalorian wars for instance.

[SWSF Hale]

I like the Atmospheric Bombardment and new Orbital Bombardment rules I just posted. They look simple, easy to follow, and add some nuance to ground combat without taking away or nerfing Bombardment in totality. Unless I hear some serious opposition to those, I say we roll with them. On paper those rules look like they're going to work so well I don't feel like we need to test them.

The reality is, it's T-minus 4 Days until launch so I'm really not trying to overhaul the rules again.

The rules work. The specs are tight. The game is ready to be played.

[Erasmar]

I've always thought of orbital bombardment being the analog of strategic bombing in WWII. There can be military focus or it can be generalized, civilian fire-bombing like the Allies did to Dresden and a couple other German cities. I can imagine complicated rules for us based on the distinction of pinpoint vs general, but I think we should keep it simple.

Honestly I haven't really read these chunks of rules discussion, more like perused. Ultimately I won't give two shits, I'll just use whatever the council decides. Unlike Tatooinian holomarketing call center specialist Pepto Bizmaul, who gives many shits periodically throughout the day.