OOC Chat

[SWSF Hale]

Being a former submariner, I must inform you that American submarines destroyed 50% of the Japanese navy and 75% of their merchant shipping, while U.S. Subs only accounted for 10% of the total Navy at the time (in terms of number of boats/crew). So yeah, we may have traded carrier for carrier, and ship for ship, but submarines did the rest.

[Dementat]

They would have never taken the mainland. They didn't have the numbers, and the American population is too well armed.

[Ramano]

Thats the problem. Guns dont mean much to an aerial bombardment. They wouldnt need to have marched across the mainland, they just needed a foothold on the West Coast and they could have bombed us into non-existence. Not to mention had they made it to our mainland, the war in Europe would have been far different as the majority of our fighting force would not have been there, we'd have had to call it back to protect our own shores, leaving Hitlers 3rd Reich with total control over Europe.

Needless to say, no one can know for sure what would have happened, but I think its safe to assume it would have made the war drastically different.

Edit: Another thing you dont take into account is how little % of the general population actually own guns, and the even smaller % of those who actually know how to use them. If we are relying on the civilian population of this nation to protect us, we've already lost. Red Dawn might be a decent movie, but its still fiction.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Industrial Capacity won the pacific war for us before the bombs were dropped.  Japanese Empire was islands and coastlines.  They fought incredibly well with sound tactics and fanaticism but they could never hurt us long enough to have a lasting effect after PH.  Their interests likely rested with keeping US out of the pacific i.e. enforce their sphere of influence/resources.  Their main mistake was underestimating the American public's resolve for a war of revenge.

Patton was a romanticized relic of a time previous his own, which he'd probably eagerly admit to.

But all in all, Old Men Talking, Young Men Dying.

[Ramano]

Thats because they dont fight wars right. You have to hit the command centers to kill the old guys. Once you take them out of the equation, the young guys just stand around wondering what to do. 1 single attack, wipe out the pentagon, air force 1, and NMCC/NORAD and watch the USA Military might fall apart. If you cant make the old men die, your just fighting trench warfare.

[SWSF Hale]

YES I love our WWII discussions, they always happen every 3 years, lol.

In the hypothetical scenario that America was dealt a "decisive" blow to our military-bureaucratic command and control centers, then contingency plans at the local, state, and national levels would provide direction for the future (and if you've ever read any, some of them are a little scary). The military-bureaucratic complex of the US is so interwoven that eventually somebody or an oligarchy would take control. Plenty of movies have explored this topic.

You also have to take into account our allies. If America was disabled by some decisive attack, then the entire world would erupt against whoever made that attack. This is precisely why we may never have WWIII because mutually ensured destruction AND total war is a powerful deterrent, and exactly why wars of the future will be regional conflicts at best over negotiable national interests (which always come down to water, land, or oil -- all of which have a price).

[SWSF Hoppus]

Monty was a pussy and a prissy egoist. Patton was in love with the character he created for himself, but that character inspired the 3rd army and lead to some great victories.

We can thank Uncle Joe for destroying Germany though. Isn't it something like 1:8 the forces Hitler had committed to the West:East? I read a book recently and it talked about how much tension there was between west and russia even as allies, how we moved down troops to block russi aout of parts of the north of europe because if they entered, it would be part of the empire and everyone knew it. I forget the city but in one battle Russia got the locals to rally and fight the germans, then stopped at the gates of teh city and let the germans massacre the locals. then they rolled in and took it over easily - with allt he local govt/military gone, so an easy conquest... fucking russians.

[Ramano]

Hale, I want you to look at any natural disaster thats happened over the last 10 years and tell me again those contingency plans work. There is no situation where any good could come from the civilian populous of this nation having to defend it, nor would it be effective enough to actually post some sort of defense. At best we would be a minor annoyance thats easier to ignore then deal with.

[Syren]

Oh, I don't know. Take away my right to shoes and I'll shoot you dead.

[Ramano]

With all due respect syren, you wouldnt make it through the first day of occupation alive to have to worry about it. People like you are usually gunned down on sight in such situations. Too loud.

[SWSF Eidolon]

Confronting Natural Disaster is much more complex of an endeavor than confronting a belligerent invading force on your home soil.  Should we even be heavily attacked and invaded, politics would be out the window and unity in the face of the common enemy would prevail.  Every individual I know has at least one fire arm in their home, and some have dozens.

Consider that the United States is likely the most well equipped and potentially brutal fighting force in the world.  You need to look no further than Iraq and Afghanistan for proof of civilians and their willingness/wearwithall to effectively and relentlessly engage professionally trained and equipped military personnel.  Syria, Libya, etc.  All paramilitary/civilian forces fighting on 'home soil', all poorly equipped in comparison of their adversary.  All (eventually) victorious in ousting their Invaders/Oppressors.

Most Americans live a life of comfort and luxury and excess right now.  But that's because we can.  It's easy to turn that off and go in to survival/reprisal mode.

[Syren]

An invading force would have to get quite a ways into the US. It's not like they can just sail up to Colorado. Any air assault would be gunned down before it got this far - from either direction. Remember I live in NORAD country. By the time occupation of any kind began, forces from Ft Carson and the Air Force Academy in the Springs would be mobilized. And, if all else fails, I flee east into the plains then north into Canada. They can't seal off all borders. I'd be in Montreal with a cosmopolitan without even breaking a nail.

I'm crafty! 

[Ramano]

With the exception of the one assault they havnt planned for because they dont consider it a possibility. Mexico teams up with China and marches right up the heartland of the USA and splits us in half before we can even know whats going on. Then while we recoil trying to recover, China has all the time in the world to figure out how they are going to set a foothold.

The only problem any of them have is that still doesnt knock out the missile silo's here in Wisconsin and Minnesota. The 1 MM3 out in dodge county would be enough to remove most of Asia from the earth...

[SWSF Eidolon]

I'd be in Montreal with a cosmopolitan

Vous parle francais mademoiselle?

[Syren]

Oui je le fais, monsieur. La France est une capitale de la mode essentiel de mon travail.