OOC Chat

[Ramano]

Storyline actions (entering HS from a friendly system, restocking, general roleplaying) take place instantaneously as has been throughout the game since its inception. Lest you really want to bring up issue with what you and Hale just did after I killed his ISD II when you sold him his VSD II. No one accounted for correct HS travel time, no one took a post to reload and restock anything, it was storyline thus happened as of the post.

As far as actual rule validation we have
#3 under Burden of Command: 3. Players cannot assume command over new units until their character is physically in the same system as those units. The only exception to this rule is making direct swaps between newly constructed units or those on PDF duty. For example, if a player has his/her fleet deployed to an away system and places a ship in his main fleet onto PDF duty, a newly constructed ship can be transferred directly into his main fleet without the player needing to be physically present to do so. Additionally, if a player wants to make a 1-for-1 swap between a ship in his main fleet and one on PDF, both of those ships DO NOT have to be present with each other. The final caveat to this rule is that any new additions, transfers, swaps, or any modifications to any player fleet cannot take place if units are involved in combat operations or will be entering combat upon their arrival to a player's current location.

I met all of the above qualifications.

under Turn Cycles: Players are allowed 1 post per day, with a minimum of 24 hours between any two posts. As a courtesy, post editing may be done up to 15 minutes after your initial post if it changes the impact on another player (stylistics edits can be done at any time).  Entering hyperspace from a friendly system or while not in combat does not count against your 1 post per day limit.  Players can make a "Withdrawal" (enter hyperspace) from battle at any time, so long as all damage is account for. Withdrawing from battle DOES count against the 1 post per day limit. (Tactical Note: Interdictor Cruisers effectively prevent Withdrawal capability.)

I violated nothing there as I am not in combat, and it was a storyline post.

under Launching craft: All capital ships can launch or recall any or all of their onboard craft each round.

That justify's the no wait restock.

Im sorry Dem, but this has all been analyzed and reanalyzed, planned out and instituted. Your trapped at Eriadu and short of simply abandoning this planet, which is going to make a counter-diplomacy action very easy, your going to have to use that pretty fleet. Besides, you've run the galaxy, unchecked, since the game started, its about time someone picked on you.

And might I say, finally, after many years of waiting, my revenge for the DCS in LotF is at hand! Either you fight me and lose your fleet, or you flee and make the GE look like a group of cowards, terrified and on the run from the Rebellion even further, which I vow to exploit to the absolute utmost of my SLing abilities, lmao.

Edit: However, you do have that awful ability that allows you to use OOC knowledge, so your character would know there is a disturbance in the force, and your still under SL time. So you can still re-position your fleet so it doesnt get hit on my exit post when im in the same grid as you and dont need to scan.

[SWSF Hoppus]

Magic, duh.

[SWSF Hale]

GM Commentary

1. Ramano's actions were entirely legal within the scope of the rules. Phrased sloppily and lacking logical organization perhaps, but legal.

2. Since Dementat has completed Milestones 1 & 2 at Eriadu, in the hypothetical scenario that Eriadu is attacked I would rule in favor of Dementat taking command of its PDF because the system has shifted its alignment towards the Empire. If he wants to proceed with Milestone 3 and scrap its PDF to send his own units in, that is his prerogative...but either way, the PDF can now be considered "Imperial" for battle purposes.

To repost something I said a few days back:

So I have a question, what happens if a player comes to a planet another player has begun diplomacy at, but has not yet reached any milestones? Who gets control of the PDF? Would the PDF fight at all? Is there a way to counter diplomacy?

Insight to this inquiry is necessary and speed is of the essence.

Here's how I would resolve it:

1A. Any Mission progress would be halted. | Regarding the recent rules about the "Definition of Conflict", I think a system in conflict would be unable to entertain any mission efforts.

1B. An attack on a system might validate the presence and intention of he who began the Diplomacy in the first place. | While that's strictly from a Storyline perspective, it is worth mentioning.

2. The System would likely become neutral, unless it otherwise had Amnesty with a particular fashion. | For example, if you attack Kuat while I was there for some reason, I'm pretty sure the Kuat PDF would say "oh, look here we got some Rebels to kill".

3. The System, in its neutrality, would defer to itself to protect its own interests. | Which is to say, the system's PDF will operate under conservative rules of engagement (i.e. it wont fire weapons until fired upon). In the unlikely event a system does get fired upon, one of us would command the PDF to prevent any perceived conflict of interest.

So what we have here would effectively be a 1A + 1B scenario, with 1B "validat[ing] the presence and intention of" Dementat's Diplomacy, and given that Eriadu has already become a member of the Imperial Network, "Imperial Amnesty"/political alignment can be assumed at this point for purposes of #2, thus Dementat would take command of the PDF or use his own units.

I hope this GM Commentary helped everyone. If shit is about to go down - which I'm pretty sure it is - I'd like to make sure everyone is aware of what will happen under the rules.

[Ramano]

This is why I said at the very start of the game, someone(you) needed to step up and take a total GM position.

And I think its crap, but as happens often in D&D type situation, you dont always agree with the ruling of a game master, but you get over it. -grumbles-

Either way, he has till like midnight to move his stuff or im gunna wipe it out, right out of the gate. And I can justify the move as I ALWAYS exit HS in DZ-1 and move to C-1, without fail, feel free to go back and look through ALL of my battle posts. Every time. I believe it was discussed at the outset of designing the scanning rules that with the exception of deepspace zones (due to the amount of space they encompass) if you were in the same grid you could see them.

[Dementat]

How do you propose knowing the locations of my ships in deep space upon exit? You are still the stranger to the system, and would still need to perform a scan.

[Ramano]

Ok, and just for clarification purposes, he gets an either or situation on his PDF right? Like he cant keep the stations, either he has the stations, or he has what he just shipped out there? By my understanding of the rules and the posts around page 60 of the OOC here, when you put your own PDF on the planet, the planet looses everything it had at it. So if he sent ships, he would have the 2 VSD IIs, but he'd lose the Omega platform, the Golan, and any ground installations as it "evaporates" when you replace the PDF?

As I said, proof of this discussion is around page 60 of the OOC in relation to my diplomacy at Bakura when I asked if I got to keep the dreadnaught and ground stuff as part of the replacement. If you want to push the issue I can go pull it out and quote it, but it would be way quicker for you to go look for yourself. Between page 58-62, I just looked at it, cant remember which page it was off hand though. Eidolon posted it, Hale confirmed it.

So just so we know what we are dealing with as we all start ripping the rules into pieces looking for another loophole for that little extra bit of advantage, my question exactly is: Seeing as he shipped stuff out there to act as PDF, are the rest of the PDF installations gone now?

And yes this is important because it is the difference between him having 4 VSD IIs to fight with, and 4 VSD IIs, 1 Omega, 1 Golan, 1 Sigma + whatever ground stuff it had to fight with, which im sure is what he's thinking right now, and have had explained to me in the past as wrong. (Why else would he nuke all that power for 2 VSD IIs, lmao)

And to answer your question you posted while I was, you have a VSD II listed currently in C-1, if I am in C-1 how would I not see it out of the viewport? Yes, id still have to scan for the other one, and your PDF ones, but im still taking this one home with me. =p

Edit: And for the record, we can argue about this all night, im happy to go without sleep. But the fact of the matter remains, either you make a post at Eriadu moving stuff either into a strike formation and use this VSD as bait, which I assure you im going to pounce on, cause even with 4 VSDs, your still not going to win this. Or you can pull everything in the system back into a defensive position and force me to rethink where im going to exit and have to scan before I kill you. So your position remains the same either way, you got 4 VSD IIs to fight with, pick your positions cause nothing you do will prevent this battle other then fleeing, and that would be very unfitting of the new emperor. It would show fear, and fear is a weakness. We ALL know full well what happens when a sith, especially a sith lord, shows weakness...

Edit Edit: And as a concession to show I am a team player, as im sure it was a simple rules overlook when he shipped the new stuff out there, if he would so wish too, I will not voice opposition to him voiding the post of him sending the 2 VSD IIs (which im quite positive thats where they are going). The omega alone is worth more power then both of the VSDs combined. Unless of course he already knew that, and really wants to loose EVERYTHING in favor of 2 medium cruisers.  If that is the case (-boggles at the concept-) then just disregard this 2nd edit.

[Dementat]

What kind of fool do you take me for? When figuring for UCR, those stations are next to useless. This is misdirection anyways. Unless you are going to try and double-team me, in which case Hop would arrive days late, this will not be so easy as you think. Come on, we both know Hop is going after Rothana ;-)

[Ramano]

Lmao, well if thats what you think then my spynet is better then your use of the force hehe. And yes, the stations do have a fail UCR, but the simple math of it makes the stations far more desirable. Youd have twice the hit points, twice the attack power, and nearly 3x the fighters/aux, as well as a defended position to post your ships up at. But hey, if you think you can do better with a pair of VSD IIs, that is absolutely your call.

And uhh... Dem... you know me better then that. >=p

[SWSF Hale]

I consider all of this discussion to be pre-battle "trash talk", so this is the last time I'll address the PDF issue.

Dem has two choices:
A. Begin Milestone 3 and scrap Eriadu's ENTIRE PDF (platforms, ships, and ground facilities) to replace it with his own.
B. Let Eriadu's PDF stay as-is until he wants to begin Milestone 3.

[Ramano]

Well with the exception of the rule change issue thats all my side on this has been. Besides, a little pre-battle trashing and loophole searching is what makes simming the great game that it is!

In fact if you go through any battle taken place in any simming universe ever, you'll find far more time was spent dissecting the rules then were ever spent actually posting lmao.

[SWSF Hale]

On a separate note, the ComScan Outpost for both factions has been made cheaper, tougher, and more useful. I know before with its high cost people probably were not interested in it, but I wanted to make it more competitive with the military-industrial facilities... so hopefully the new changes will do the trick.

[Ramano]

-rubs hands together greedily- Oh come on 5pm... tis not every day one gets the Emperor in a position to engage him in open combat. And no Bothans had to die to achieve it, Mothma eat your heart out, haha.

However Dem, you know, its never to late to come back from the dark side. None are above redemption as was taught by KotOR. I could see a very promising future for you as a rebel. ;p

Edit: Ahh, psychological warfare, you know I love it. Just remember Dem, it is easier for a camel to crawl through the eye of a needle then it is for a proud man to enter the gates of heaven. And you should have kept the installations... even if the space facilities were crap, you just lost all the ground facilities too. I mean seriously, why not just give me the planet haha.

Edit Edit: Ahh yes!! I remember my question now, what kind of mission is this with attacking another player with intentions to hold in all perpetuity the planet he is at? Is there any mission that allows us to get paid for this? Like can it be classified as a conquest mission or does it have to be an invasion?

[SWSF Hoppus]

We are still limited ot 8 facilities per planet right? (2 facilities per grid) ?

[Ramano]

Last I heard yeah.

Edit: For ground facilities. Orbital facilities have their own limits, listed in their stats.

Edit Edit: Dem hurry up and post damn it! LoL!

[Dementat]

Milestone #3 [12 Days]: Host System agrees to become a member of the Imperial Senate (GE) or the Council of Moffs (IR). Required Actions: Build an Imperial Fleet Depot on the system in an open G-grid. Also, fully replace their Space PDF Fleet (23 CP/7-ships), which can be done with stock units; once the Depot and Replacement PDF is completed, this Milestone will be done.
Milestone #4 [16 Days]: Host System agrees to become a Member System of the GE/IR. All Space and Ground facilities on the planet are immediately scrapped and the System transfers 1000 KCs to your Account. Required Actions: Build an Imperial Sector Palace to replace the Host System's Alpha-class Command Operations Center (or next highest facility). Once the ISP is completed, the Host System is officially under your control as a player, and you can build new facilities at your leisure.


As I understand it, the ground should remain unchanged until the Depot is complete. It clearly states nothing is scrapped until Milestone#3 is completed. Otherwise, I should get the 1000KC for the scrapping now and not later.