Reserve Units (Mothballing)

[RanesDsane]

As was brought up in the swapping units thread and something I've been kicking around in my head some:  Mothballing of units.

Let me start by saying that I understand that you don't want huge stockpiles built up, and I agree!  However, I also think that we should have to just destroy units because we're not using them or don't have somewhere to immediately house them.  Therefore, I propose:

Units may be placed into reserve at a storage facility.  Units placed in reserve cannot be used in combat or as immediate combat reserves.  Units in reserve cost 2% of their build cost, per month, to maintain.  Placing a unit into reserve or taking them out of reserve costs 5% of their build cost.  They take 1/2 their build time to be pulled out of reserves and made active.  Units in reserve cannot be activated while there is combat at a location; those who would activate them are busy elsewhere.

These rules would also allow units that you can't pay maintenance cost for to be placed into reserve, instead of destroyed.  The storage facility above could be an actual ground/orbital item to be built or not.  I think the cost for transiting into/out of reserve and the upkeep cost of keeping them in reserve will discourage abuse while providing flexibility.

Use cases I see:  I built a Venator, but I didn't have the cash on hand to upgrade the fighters immediately.  I didn't want to wait another month before starting the build.  Next month comes along, I'm ready to upgrade my Venator's fighters.  I use my starfighter plant to built two hornet squadrons to replace 2 Z-95 squadrons.  Without this, the Z-95s would just be lost; I have nowhere to put them/use them.  With this, I can pay 6MC and place them into reserve status.  Next month, I have to pay 2.4MC to cover their upkeep cost.  Later on, if I lose a squadron in combat, I can (after combat is done, if it was at that location) pay 6MC to bring them back from reserve in 1.5 days and put them on a ship.  Let's say that only lasted a month, so I paid 14.4 MC to store them, and it took 1.5 days to bring them out of reserves.  In the end, I actually paid 74.4MC for that squadron, and an extra 1.5 days of time.  However, that beats throwing away 60MC worth of fighters and then spending another 60MC and 3 Days to build replacements.

Something to discuss.

[SWSF Hale]

Don't know if you caught this, but the specs were recently expanded. Production facilities can now store the # of units they are capable of producing.

[RanesDsane]

Don't know if you caught this, but the specs were recently expanded. Production facilities can now store the # of units they are capable of producing.

I did, actually, and I like that change.  I hadn't considered, but I guess you could just swap produced units into the ship and the ship units into storage at the production facility for a short-term way of doing this.  That would only solve for a couple of fighter squadrons (per facility), though.  Certainly not a bad alternative if this is a no-go.

[gallpizi]

I personally have been thinking about this a lot myself. It just doesn't make sense that you couldn't store something someplace but at the same time we don't want things to get out of hand either.

[Lordmaligan]

I'm fine with rules as is and to get started before people wander off.

If an organization finds there current storage capacity for fighters.aux craft is insufficient perhaps that is a new piece of technology they can propose down the road. A storage facility for example.

Im not sure how likely that venator scenario is. To upgrade (given MC or size limitations) the cost would be a handful of MC difference and not 100's. People should be able to afford it .... and if they can't it probably makes little sense to build a squad at full price next round to replace it. But thats my strategic opinion and perhaps why that faction leader has no money hah.

[RanesDsane]

This doesn't need to hold up the start, that's for sure.

I'd not object to the storage facility being an actual facility.  I would assume it's a space facility, though, since the idea would be to store anything, including capital ships.

[SWSF Hoppus]

This doesn't need to hold up the start, that's for sure.

I'd not object to the storage facility being an actual facility.  I would assume it's a space facility, though, since the idea would be to store anything, including capital ships.

Off hand I'm against storing anything significant like a capital ship. The whole purpose of maintenance fees and limited income is to make units precious and costly. It seems unrealistic for a military to produce a massive warship just to store if for a rainy day. And it also allows inactive players to stockpile units and thus make them less precious.

So capital ships I will say no to now. Down the line we can revisit.

As for storing other things, as Hale pointed out the production facilities can hold what they can produce in storage.

This topic is also tied into what will be decided regarding swapping units and if units should come with a capital ship or not. So will say lets table this until the 3-month revision in November and see how pressing the need is.

[gallpizi]

Works for me.

That being said https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_reserve_fleets

[SWSF Hoppus]

Works for me.

That being said https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_reserve_fleets

Ha! Well that changes my mind for me.

So we are considering some sort of space dock that the ships are tethered to, the pay a reduced maintenance fee, have a skeleton crew, and take time to activate, can't be used immediately?

[SWSF Hale]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't plan on having any capital ships on reserve. It seems more intuitive to simply build up local PDF forces rather than to have this "hidden fleet" on reserve ready to be activated and strike back with fury and vengeance. That being said, here's how I would do it... =)

1. Build the ship at normal price.
2. Transfer it to a Deep Space Mothball Location (1 turn in hyperspace).
3. When the decision is made to activate the Mothballed Ship, Crew Recall takes 2 turns.
4. Crew gets transported to Mothballed Ship (1 turn in hyperspace).
5. Mothballed Ship must report to home system (1 turn in hyperspace) in order to complete activation process (orders, etc.).
6. At that point, maintenance begins.

Overall process is 5 days.

[SWSF Hoppus]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't plan on having any capital ships on reserve. It seems more intuitive to simply build up local PDF forces rather than to have this "hidden fleet" on reserve ready to be activated and strike back with fury and vengeance. That being said, here's how I would do it... =)

1. Build the ship at normal price.
2. Transfer it to a Deep Space Mothball Location (1 turn in hyperspace).
3. When the decision is made to activate the Mothballed Ship, Crew Recall takes 2 turns.
4. Crew gets transported to Mothballed Ship (1 turn in hyperspace).
5. Mothballed Ship must report to home system (1 turn in hyperspace) in order to complete activation process (orders, etc.).
6. At that point, maintenance begins.

Overall process is 5 days.

If we do it I will force players to have these inactive ships at systems they possess, so they are sitting ducks waiting to be captured by clever enemies

[SWSF Hale]

Then simply allow Shipyards to store their length capacity in # of capital ships like every other production facility.

[gallpizi]

I am personally a fan of whatever happens to the mothballed ships that they be in a central location that can in theory be raided. Opens up a ton of ideas. Not that I care much since I don't intend on mothballing fleets.

[RanesDsane]

Ha! Well that changes my mind for me.

So we are considering some sort of space dock that the ships are tethered to, the pay a reduced maintenance fee, have a skeleton crew, and take time to activate, can't be used immediately?

Yep!  It can be a piece of story equipment, or an actual tech that can be built.  You may even want to separate ground and space.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't plan on having any capital ships on reserve. It seems more intuitive to simply build up local PDF forces rather than to have this "hidden fleet" on reserve ready to be activated and strike back with fury and vengeance. That being said, here's how I would do it... =)

1. Build the ship at normal price.
2. Transfer it to a Deep Space Mothball Location (1 turn in hyperspace).
3. When the decision is made to activate the Mothballed Ship, Crew Recall takes 2 turns.
4. Crew gets transported to Mothballed Ship (1 turn in hyperspace).
5. Mothballed Ship must report to home system (1 turn in hyperspace) in order to complete activation process (orders, etc.).
6. At that point, maintenance begins.

Overall process is 5 days.

A long processing time is good, I think.  This isn't meant to be cheap quick reaction forces.  What I see is, as we move forward, we may end up with a situation where we can say "I don't need this ship, I don't want to destroy it, but I need the maintenance cost to do other things."  So you have the option to stow it away for a rainy day and pay far less for it in the mean time.

If we do it I will force players to have these inactive ships at systems they possess, so they are sitting ducks waiting to be captured by clever enemies

I am personally a fan of whatever happens to the mothballed ships that they be in a central location that can in theory be raided. Opens up a ton of ideas. Not that I care much since I don't intend on mothballing fleets.

Yes, absolutely, to both!  These will need to be protected, or they'll be vulnerable to capture.  They're basically 'disabled' ships.

[SWSF Eidolon]

I say leave as is.  Sf facils are cheap so build a few more.  If anything juat expand facil storage x2 at most

The value of say 8 sf production facils being if you get cleaned out you can replenish more rapidly both stored and new production wise.  Build times for sfs are low, so stockpiling necessity not as priority. Also more easy you make to store up sfs and aux and troops less need for a war purse strategy, stocked units are war currency.


Im lost on this mothballed ship talk.  Why would i mothball a ship instead of have it patroling/defending/pdf?  Is this as it would pertain to circumventing maintenance only?  If i had an isd mothballed somewheres, whos to say the hypothetical 10k troops i have there arent guarding it?  What if i specifically station them on it?