Star Wars Sim Forum: Roleplay, Simming and Fan Fiction
THE GALACTIC ARCHIVES => Retired Game Archives => [Closed] GCW Archives => Topic started by: SWSF Hoppus on June 28, 2012, 05:32:40 PM
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For all of your questions about rules, specifications, and other items having to do with GCW: Twilight of the Empire gameplay.
Q: When choosing Fleet Escorts as part of our starting 23 CP Fleet are we restricted to STOCK technology, or can we choose freely from fighters/auxiliary craft? eg. for Rebels, can we choose 3 X-Wing Squads? Or would we have to choose 3 Z95 squads?
A: Players get 23 CPs worth of CAPITAL SHIPS at the start of the game. Fleet Escorts are considered "bonus" so must consist of stock units.
Q: Are we allowed to use the starting 2000 KCs only for facility construction? Or can some be saved and used to manufacture other units?
A: The 2000 KCs is *recommended* to be used for facilities only, but if you want to buy units go ahead.
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First question!
Q: When choosing Fleet Escorts as part of our starting 23 CP Fleet are we restricted to STOCK technology, or can we choose freely from fighters/auxiliary craft? eg. for Rebels, can we choose 3 X-Wing Squads? Or would we have to choose 3 Z95 squads?
Q: Are we allowed to use the starting 2000 KCs only for facility construction? Or can some be saved and used to manufacture other units?
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Q1: Players get 23 CPs worth of CAPITAL SHIPS at the start of the game. Fleet Escorts are considered "bonus" so must consist of stock units.
Q2: The 2000 KCs is *recommended* to be used for facilities only, but if you want to buy units go ahead.
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Q1: What happened to the expansion rules?
Q2: What were the limits on ground facilities?
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Q1: The old Expansion rules were done away with, and I have not written the news ones yet yet. The new method of expanding to another world will be done via three ways:
EXPANSION -- Bring your Hero Unit to a Barren World or a system that has had its PDF completely destroyed and build a ground facility there. Once the ground facility has been built, you can acquire the system bonuses.
CONQUEST -- This is a Mission for Officers that enables you to battle a PDF and set up a big shop afterwards to solidify your control over the planet.
DIPLOMACY -- This is a Mission for Leaders that enables you to take over a planet diplomatically without shots fired.
Q2: (2) Ground facilities per Ground Grid.
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Please note, neutral planets are not limited to the PDF rules players are. Some planets have way more then 2 facilities per grid. Keep this in mind before attacking.
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Q: Probably already covered at some point in the OOC thread, but if we purchase an upgrade to our hero to expand their CP to start, does that give us 24 CP for our fleet, or since the game begins at that point, do we still only have 23 CP for our starting fleet + 1 CP going forward? (Can my starting fleet be 24 CP if I spend the 1000 kc?)
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A: Yes, the ability to upgrade your Hero on an Action Day even began on the First Action Day, and the upgrade is effective immediately. Therefore if you have an Hero with a +1 CP bonus, you would have 24 CPs total at the start.
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Rules Update:
Ground PDF and RGF
Ground PDFs are limited to facilities, that is, only the units that can be housed in a facility are the ones that can be permanently stationed there. Reserve Guard Forces (RGF) would be the equivalent to National Guard units employed by many nations today. Ground RGFs are comprised of entirely stock units at first but can be upgraded if a player so chooses, and they are always "active". The RGF has the following standing limits: 1 Starfighter Squadron, 100 Infantry Squads, and 10 GAVs, to be placed in any Ground Grid with a facility.
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Q: How is hyperspace travel calculated without an embedded calculator?
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A: I imagine Empier has that request at the top of his in-box. He needs to add it to the forum. In the meantime, go to the Ashes of the Alliance thread and click "new topic", the NaviComputer drop-down is there. As soon as you're done with the topic just exit out. Easy.
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I have sent the code to Empier he just needs to update the server, he's a pretty busy dude but he will get it done soon :)
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Rules Update:
Summary -- Tractor Beams are now affected by UCR.
Tractor Beams
Capital ships with tractor beam projectors are capable of physically controlling another vessel of lesser size. The length of control for tractors are posted on each unit specification. Typically 1 tractor beam projector has 100m of control. Auxiliary tractor beam projectors has 25m of control. To determine the amount of tractor control, calculate the length as you would damage using UCR. A ship is under the control of tractor beams when the length of the ship is exceeded by projectors (i.e. 2 tractor beam projectors at UCR 7 [200m], would have control of a Corvette [150m]). If a ship is under complete tractor control, it can be dragged, pushed, or pulled up to 1 grid space away and can be taken into hyperspace. Once a ship has been fully tractored, it has a UCR of 1. In the Order of Battle, Tractor Beam operations come last (so on an initial post using tractor beams, ship cannot tractor their target first and shoot second to take advantage of their new ultra-low UCR).
Example.
1. ISD Devastator projects 10 Tractor Beams onto CORV Tantive IV. UCR 3/7 = 0.428 x 1000m = 428 meters held.
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GM Advisory
Everyone's been asking me about the accessibility of Independent technology for the main factions, so just to reiterate the rules, let me quote them:
Episode II: Twilight of the Empire | Factions, Strongholds, Bonus PDF Units, and Available Technology
Galactic Empire: Coruscant [1 SSD] The GE in Twilight of the Empire represents the faction that controls Coruscant and still maintains a vast swath of the galaxy as "the real Empire". The GE is full of warlords, Admirals, and Moffs that fancy themselves as masters of their own Empires. GE Players may only use Imperial technology.
Imperial Remnant: Bastion [1 ISD-II] The IR is a splinter faction of the GE that acknowledges the death of Palpatine and has set up a continuance government in the form of the Council of Moffs, headed by a Supreme Executor. Politically, the IR is more "reformed" from the hardline New Order, and so many policies such as the Tarkin Doctrine are ignored. IR Players may use full Imperial tech and the Venator-class.
New Republic: Mon Calamari [1 MC-90] The New Republic is the official government that has superseded the Rebellion and is headquartered at Mon Calamari, where its shipyards continue to serve the NR faithfully. NR Players are servants to the greater cause: restoring the Republic, and so they obey the orders handed down to them. NR Players may only use Republic/Rebel technology.
Rebel Alliance: Endor [1 MC-90] The Rebel Alliance is a continuation of the organization that fought against the Empire but are no longer serving the government that is the New Republic. While both the NR and RA want to see the Republic restored, the RA wants to do it on their own terms. RA Players may use both Rebel technology and full Independent technology.
Trade Federation: Mustafar [1 DHC] The Trade Federation is a reassembly of the major players that survived the Galactic Civil War, and wish to reform the original Trade Federation of the Clone Wars into a modern fighting force. With headquarters on Mustafar, the new TF has abandoned Cato Nemoidia entirely as is managed exclusively by humans and other humanoids. TF Players may only use TF technology.
Hutt Syndicate: Nal Hutta & Nar Shaddaa [1 VNSD + 1 PBC] While perhaps not a true military-political faction with an overarching government, the Hutt Syndicate maintains considerable power inside Hutt Space and is a dominant player in galactic affairs. Using the Hutt Syndicate Network to their advantage, HS players can increase their wealth as well as influence the economics of the galaxy. HS Players may only use HS and Independent technology.
Hapes Consortium: Hapes [Star Home, 1 CFC, 2 HPB, 3 NBCs] The Hapes Consortium represents dozens of star systems that have maintained a strict isolationist policy throughout the Galactic Civil War...until now. HC Players may only use HC technology.
Corporate Sector Authority: Bonadan [1 VSD + 2 MCCs] Aligned with the Empire during the Galactic Civil War, the CSA has now fully separated from the Empire since the death of Palpatine and is the sovereign faction of the Corporate Sector. CSA Players my use Independent technology and VSD-I's.
Independents: Tatooine [4 DREADs] Belonging to nobody, Tatooine serves as an Intergalactic Amnesty planet where anyone can go and do whatever they want.
Outer Rim Coalition: Vergesso Asteroids [4 ORC-ABs + 4 ORC-CORVs] The ORC is the dominant underworld organization of the Outer Rim. With its headquarters located in the Vergesso Asteroids, they frequently launch raids to nearby planets and even Core Worlds. ORC Players may only use ORC technology.
Facilities are included with your available technology, so if you can only build NR tech for example, you can only build NR facilities. The only exception to this rule is the Delta Multipurpose Base, which can be built by anybody. If you see another player building Independent tech, it might be because that player has access to it like the Rebel Alliance. If you have built Independent technology that you are not allowed to build, then please refund the money and backlog your constructions so that everything works out. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Okay but Imperial nor NR have access to any facility like a Beta Complex (decent troops, GAVs, price)
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The Imperial/Republic Academy now has 300 Infantry. The Imperial/Republic Factory now has 30 GAVs. Enjoy.
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Well the imps get the pre-fabricated garrison base, but he does have a point, perhaps the NR could use something around the lines of military bases they can build. Only NR military base is the delta, and you cant defend a planet with those.
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nvm, hale beat me to the punch.
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GM Announcement
GallPizi is claiming Wayland as his Imperial Remnant Stronghold. Wayland will loose all of its standard features listed under "The Galaxy" thread and will become a normal Stronghold per the rules, but without the bonus ISD-II.
Eidolon is claiming Yavin IV as his New Republic Stronghold. Since Eidolon has already gotten paid, him and Hoppus will be refunding facilities/units and anything else to set up Yavin as if it were a Stronghold from Day 1. If you see anything "tricky" going on, this is why. Yavin will keep its Massassi Temple bonus; but will not gain the bonus MC-90 for PDF.
These moves have been made to simplify the management and organization of our factions.
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GM Announcement
In order to expand the galaxy and gameplay of our beloved sim, I will be taking submissions for new tech, new systems, or anything "new" you'd like to see added to the game from now until the next Action Day (August 1st). Please send my your submissions via PM.
One system I plan on adding right now is Kamino... and oh yes, there will be clones.
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Q: Shipyards go in orbit or on surface???
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I think all new tech submissions should remain either modified ships (like my modified dreadnaught) or fall canon to our timeline. No Dark Lancer interceptors or Black Corsair class Battle Ships that only existed in like 34ABY with the Vong war.
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Shipyards are space facilities. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Also I agree with Ramano about the tech timeline. Keep things within < 5 ABY post-Endor era. Ideally, what I'd like to see is a favorite class of ship that you really like that didn't make it into the specs but should be, or a faction-specific mod to a current ship, or any kind of ground unit.
In terms of systems to be added, the core worlds are pretty dense so I'd like to see outer rim stuff suggested...
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<5 ABY... well that knocks the E-wing out ;)
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and the MC-90, and the ESC, and the Tie Avenger, and the Tie Defender... we are talking about stuff to be added smart ass ;)
And personally, I dont think we should expand the uni. The smaller planet list almost assures more player interaction. Makes the planets that are listed all the more valuable. Adds a whole new element of fear to the game. Every planet is valuable and thus will more then likely be targeted by someone at some point. In the past too many sims had such vast galaxy lists you literally could play for years and never have any contact with the rest of the game. I think we should try to avoid that if possible.
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GM Corner: Q&A about Amnesty
Q: Can I build facilities in systems with my faction's Amnesty?
A: YES
Q: What do I need to have in order to build that facility?
A: You need to have some kind of presence to begin the construction. Presence is defined as a related unit that is present in the same system. If you want to build a space facility, then you need a space unit present; if you want to build a ground facility, then you'll need a ground unit present. Once the construction has begun, your units can leave the system.
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New Missions added by public demand to clarify the gaps between Conquest/Diplomacy/Expansion. Please follow these to the letter. I will be watching. =)
INVASION (Any Faction)
Mission Requirements: None
1. Take your Fleet to a non-Barren World.
2. Once you move your ship to the C-Ring, the System will be fully alerted to your presence and will send out a galaxy wide information report (x2 hyperspace). You are now free to move about the System and engage neutral units at your leisure. As the "Mission GM" you will now take direct control of the PDF forces and post for them as you would defend your own world.
3. Once combat has begun, refer to the following time-table below for mission results. Players are required to write storyline post in addition to fulfilling the other requirements of each Milestone in order to complete this mission fully.
Milestone #1: Destroy all units that make up the PDF (if any) and deploy your units to the Ground to build a new facility.
Milestone #2: Once a facility has been completed, the system can now be declared under control of your faction. News of this exploit will travel the galaxy at x1 hyperspace.
ACCESSION TREATY (Any Faction)
Purpose: The Accession Treaty is a fast-track version of the Diplomacy Mission that seeks to add a new system to a faction without complex negotiations or arrangements made by a visiting or hosting faction. Diplomats simply will meet with the planetary leaders, engage in minor talks, and then the system will convert to the visiting faction.
Mission Requirements: A "Diplomat" which can be either a Leader, Ambassador, or Jedi Knight
1. Take your Fleet to a Barren or non-Barren World.
2. Once you move your ship to the C-Ring, the System will be fully alerted to your presence and will send out a galaxy wide information report (x2 hyperspace). You are now free to move about the System and engage in diplomatic negotiations at your leisure.
Milestone #1: Bring your Diplomat to the surface and begin negotiations with a storyline.
Milestone #2 [5 Days]: The host system signs a Peace Treaty with your faction and agrees to disarm its planetary defense forces so that your faction can provide protection. All space units and platforms are scrapped by your faction for 25% of their base cost. Storyline required.
Milestone #3 [10 Days]: The host systems signs a full Accession Treat with your faction and becomes a member system. With exception to some planets (check with Hale), all ground units and facilities will be scrapped by your faction for 25% of their base cost. Storyline required.
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Surrenders can be called by either myself or a Player GM acting as the PDF Commander. While I'd like to not see any surrenders, I understand realistically that they may happen, so this "Mission" per se is the protocol to establish how surrenders happen, and what it takes to transfer the system over to the Invading faction.
SURRENDER
Mission Requirements: A Player Fleet must actively be on an Invasion Mission.
1. Once the Fleet is at a non-Barren World and currently engaged in an Invasion Mission, the following Milestones can be treated as criteria for the either GM Hale or a Player GM (acting as the PDF commander) to properly surrender a system.
Milestone #1: Invading forces must have completely destroyed the Space PDF Fleet.
Milestone #2: Invading forces must have at least x3 the troops of the Ground PDF Army. If not, the Invading Player must battle the PDF and score enough kills until this Milestone can be satisfied.
Milestone #3 [5 Days]: The PDF Commander calls for a cease fire to negotiate terms of surrender. During this time, the Invading player must post a storyline detailing this process in order complete the milestone. Remaining ground units and facilities are scrapped at 25% and awarded to the Invading player. An exceptional storyline award can be received at this Milestone to reduce it to 2 days.
Milestone #4: Build a ground facility on the planet. Once the facility is complete, the system can be transferred to your control.
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Hey guys, Amnesty did not get updated to take into account the reduced time requirement for Diplomacy/Conquest, so here it is now:
Faction Amnesty (Players of listed faction can travel to and build facilities on this world at their leisure; Diplomacy Milestones are completed in 3 Days instead of 5. Conquest Milestones for an opposing faction take 7 Days instead of 5.)
I know some of us have Diplomacy going on right now at Amnesty systems, so please take those new dates into account and backlog if you need to. Thanks.
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NEW GROUND SPECS
Everybody listen up... this is a huge change. Ground units have been changed. Overall, this is what happened:
1. Infantry now have one single attack rating to use against vehicles, facilities, and Heroes.
2. All GAVs have got double Hit Points.
3. The Stock GAV for everybody is now the Speeder Bike.
The reason for these changes were that previously, one would need a thousand squads just to take down a single AT-AT, which to me seems ridiculous. Now, it'll take hundreds of squads to bring down an AT-AT. Yes, yes... but "what about the Battle of Hoth?" you say. I don't care how strong that AT-AT armor is, if you got 1000 troops firing blaster rifles and lobbing explosives at it, you're going to bring it down eventually!
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Not arguing the rules here, just the logic behind them. For the record, im fine with the changes, however, on Hoth, those troopers most certainly could have fired until all of their weapons melted before even scratching that AT-AT. The typical AT-AT Walker carried armor over a foot thick, of durasteel, which has an estimated (has to be estimated as the shit doesnt really exist) hardness and density near that of compressed irons inside of an asteroid.
Now, using a small asteroid as the comparison, it has been shown that an asteroid roughly 450 feet in diameter (roughly that of an AT-AT) would take about 50 million joules of energy to completely destroy said asteroid such as the ISDs did when moving through the asteroid belt on ESB. (Depending on how much you trust scientists math) Now, thats total vaporization, to simply break it up, scientists calculate it would take somewhere in the vicinity of 642,000 joules of energy. Your average 1 Megaton thermonuclear device only releases an equivalent to 450,000 joules of energy. So in essence, we wouldnt even have the technology with our most powerful weapons to hurt it.
Now as to your standard starwars E-11 repeating blaster, one of the most powerful personal anti-infantry weapons in star wars, only carries about 10 joules of energy per shot, and the extreme cold temp on Hoth, and the large area for dispersal on the AT-ATs armor, even continued fire on the vehicle would be absorbed and cooled before being able to cause any sort of damage. So realistically, yes, even 1000 squads of troopers would be unable to make that thing even flinch using normal anti-infantry weaponry.
Edit: It sucks to be smart, it takes all the fun out of movies.
Edit Edit: Also, this is why I say dont refer to video games when trying to make a realistic pen&paper RPG. In a video game, of course you hand held blaster has to damage the big AT-AT, otherwise people would complain the game is impossible to beat and not buy it. People are whiners now days.
Edit Edit Edit: Although, I thought the system we had was pretty nice as it forced you to use specialized troops to go after most heavy vehicles, as it should be realistically. I do understand however that you've already made it a point to say you dont care about the realism aspect, so feel free to do as you choose. Just stating my piece. Im done now, lol.
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Although I do have a question? Have you gone ahead and just taken the dictator/god position in the game?
Im only curious because im wondering why these changes wernt discussed before hand and just taken unilaterally. I dont mind either way, I just need to have a feel for what im dealing with here, is this still a democracy or have we evolved into a religion?
And again, so there can be absolutely no misinterpretation, im not bitching, im just asking a question. Personally I think the game would do better to just have a GM instead of a committee but I just want to know where it sits.
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It's not just the blaster rifles, but also the explosives each squad carries. In this game, a single Stormtrooper Squad represents a compact fighting force that is capable of every battle engagement, much like our U.S. military employs squads with different weapons configurations (one guy has a machine gun, another a sniper, another a rocket launcher, in addition to their normal weapons, etc.) similarly, we can expect squads of troopers in this game to have a Star Wars-equivalent weapons configuration. So yes, while blaster rifles would hardly do anything to an AT-AT, imagine a hundred troops flanking the massive beast, and launching high explosive RPGs into its belly. Even if 1 guy in a squad of 10 had the rocket launcher, this would still cause enough damage if aimed and targeted correctly.
To explain the recent changes:
1. In Ashes of the Alliance, ground combat worked entirely differently.
2. In this current setup, the ground rules changed to something completely new. The specs were also modified to get rid of that "x10 hit point/damage" multiplier we had going on, which confused things.
3. Unfortunately, the new ground specs were not tested properly, which led to this current change. Having done the math myself, and seeing that it would take thousands of squads to destroy a facility, and hundreds of troops to take on even an AT-ST... something didn't feel right.
4. I'm trying to make this game easier for people to play, not harder. Concerning some of the changes I make, I will open up a dialogue - but in some cases this is more akin to opening a can of worms (see: recent discussions about missions). So, all things being what they are I'm going to play the "GM" card as well as the "I Wrote The Rules" card when it comes to making unilateral decisions to improve gameplay as I interpret it. If there is a decision that changes gameplay (i.e. missions, etc.) then I will try to seek some kind of consensus. Obviously, the qualitative difference of improve versus change is also a subjective term, but I will try to do my best to be fair to all and strive to make an excellent game.
5. Many of the changes have been prompted by other players, and if everyone's PM boxes were open, you'd all see that there is a lot more going on behind the curtain than I'm letting on. Nearly every single time somebody has a question about the rules or an observation regarding them, I take their feedback seriously and respond promptly. In about half these cases some minor changes (such as rewording the rules to make them read more easily or to clarify something) are necessary; the other half I normally rebuff the status quo.
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I shot myself in the foot asking my question. My Sith is no longer a god on the ground ;)
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Sounds good, and thank you for the clerification.
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Which brings up another point. Since ground units got adjusted, I need to tweak the Heroes as well. The intention was to have each Hero be a force to be reckoned with, with Jedi/Sith nearly unstoppable.
A Sith Lord has the following stats:
UCR 12, Armor: 300, Health: 300, Attack: 600
Which means that it would take 240 Stormtrooper Squads to gun down 1 Sith Lord. On the other hand, the Sith Lord could take down 150 Stormtrooper Squads (using two attacks).
What would ya'll think about the following rule?
In order to attack a Hero, all of the ground units with the Hero must be engaged first.
This makes ground units kinda like a CSP of sorts, but still allows your main Hero to jump into the fray and get some action.
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Makes sense to me.
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Sounds like an awful lot of work to fix rules that probably wont be used anyway... -shrugs-
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Okay everybody, I cleaned up the Ground Rules to reflect the recent changes... please take a looksie.
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Per Hale's request
If everyone could please list some changes they'd like to see under the Developer's 2.0 thread, that would be appreciated. I don't think we need to pause the game, but perhaps taking a moment to implement some transitional rules before we get Episode III rolled out, that would be best.
It was mentioned I know but just echoing for sake of placing it more out front but I think limits to complement deployments could be a nice change, whatever system you want to use in gauging it. 1-4 squads for cap ships, 25% aux complement or raw num value, 6 12 18 whatever. RE: HS capable craft, maybe set max of 12 (1 sqd or 12 aux) may deploy prior to entering HS. Perhaps some Hero ability factor in to able to have greater number pre-deploys etc *shrug*.
As a real simple system for factions to interact with each other besides basic combat action, "Trade Relations". Keep it simple, one faction can officially establish trade relations with any faction that consents (by MISSION if that be dynamic of it), both reap a +KC per AD benefit (maybe effected by planetary holdings/traits if you wanted to get that 'crazy' but not requisite of the system). An opposing faction may then "Blockade" another faction by simply presenting itself at any opponents controlled system and holding position/declaring blockade intent, thus cutting off opponents AD cycle +KC Trade Relation bonus (pro rated by whole days if you wanted or a 15 day all or none scheme). If desired, Blockading entity receives the bonus value instead, or some degree of it. This is just basic simplelittle system for interacting with each other on other levels/excuses to precipitate p v p hostility/peace.
This suggestion will prolly get some stern resistance, but what about Unit Upkeep? If even only for Capital Cruisers at 10% cost and 1 per 2 ADs. Then do away with limits to Reserve fleet, so you can pile up whatever your infrastructure can support. If I'm understanding it correctly as is currently anyways.
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Launch Limits are definitely getting added and will come in the form of Launch Bays, which will universally be able to launch 1 SF Squad or 12 AUX. Each ship will have a number of "launch bays" even if they only technically have 1. The QFBC for example will have 4 Launch Bays.
HS capable SF/AUX will be able to do Fleet Escorting up to 24 Hours in hyperspace at 1 SF Squad or 12 AUX per Ship. This is an old familiar rule I think many will enjoy. The Rebel Fleet in ROTJ jumps from Sullust to Endor, which by our rules would be 24 Hours, so it's always good when your game system can recreate movie moments.
I don't want to give away too much, but unit upkeep is going to be obsolete with the new Command Point system in place, along with a new Industrial Output setup. As discussed before, facilities will be entirely done away with so income will be derived from system strength and combat performance.
To give everyone an idea, how we have it now is that Command Points = Construction Time, but in the new system Command Points will = Cost, and players will be given a huge allowance to afford this (we're working with 10k CP for player Fleets). There will be no more free stock units, and everything that costs money - even the 1 KC Infantry Squads - will count towards your CP limit. As you could imagine, ISDs are going to eat up alot of CPs, especially if you load them with more advanced units. Systems themselves will be able to contribute to your CP Limit so Player Fleets wont have to be everywhere at once, but not a whole lot. This will add some strategic and tactical nuances to the game I believe, because if you want to play a starfighter-heavy fleet, every little squad is going to add up.
Trade Routes and such might be an interesting addition to the game to increase the level of strategy, and perhaps something could be used with the Red/Blue Hyperspace routes to that effect? If you have some more ideas about this shoot me or Greg a PM.
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Happy thanksgiving everyone! Hope your turkey tastes as good as mine.