Star Wars Sim Forum: Roleplay, Simming and Fan Fiction
COMMUNITY => OOC Cantina => Topic started by: SWSF Hale on December 20, 2019, 08:08:35 AM
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I am going to see the movie this weekend, but I wanted to leave this thread here for popcorn talk.
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SPOILERS ALERT!!
I just had to check in after seeing Episode IX last night.
Quick run down:
Likes:
1) Rey's story, her struggle with her past, her family, her fears, and her conflicted view of Ben/Kylo, and even that she, predictably, took on the name of Skywalker at the end. Also including her ability to heal - including her healing of Ben.
2) Presence of Emperor Palpatine - I liked that they brought him back
3) Ben's redemption
4) Rey's line that she represents all of the jedi, in response to Palpatine being all the sith
5) the flashback scene to young Luke training young Leia, and finding that Leia had a lightsaber too
Dislikes:
1) Trying to tie too many loose ends into one movie
2) Adding in new characters while disregarding other characters
3) The whole chase for the map to the sith planet, the dagger, including visiting a host of planets that otherwise have no meaning
4) the impromptu arrival of thousands of ships - it was too contrived, too corny, and reminded me too much of the scene from Avatar: "aiwa has heard you". Since it was predictable that they would get the help, it would have been more powerful if they saw the recruitment effort as they were planning the attack, giving Poe the affirmation he needed.
5) The way that using the force too much kills a character - Luke, Leia, Rey, and then Ben. All apparently died or almost died just from using their power.
6) lack of explanation for (1) how Palpatine came back, (2) any detail about when Palpatine had had a kid or a paramour
7) That Finn never actually told Rey that he was force sensitive. Apparently, he wanted to since the beginning of the movie
8) That Kylo Ren kept having the same battle with Rey over and over again, whether or not they were in the same place.
Thoughts?
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WARNING FOR SPOILERS, Stop Reading As Soon As Its Apparent.
2 viewings so far.
Agree with all likes of course.
Dislike Thoughts..
1) they only had one movie left to do it in!
2) Zorii felt like that for sure, I appreciated Claude the big slug alien guy tho and the "Win the war!"/severed head guy. Allegiant General Pride was fine by me. The whole defected storm trooper company on the other Endor moon was a sweet concept. The background of the galactic community as a whole felt like it took on a much more representative role here. Booboo(?) was sweet.
3) Again same reason as above, the chase to a host of planets I enjoyed in that it was an rotating snapshot of various corners of the galaxy getting their play. That squid face alien festival on the sand planet was very cool, Kajimi was interesting.
4) I didn't mind that at all. I felt like this was an example of many set ups in the New Trilogy that all 3 of the films built on. You had a lack of any support and faith at Battle of Crait when no one responded to the Resistances Call for Help. So while yeah, you know that its going to work when they send Lando in the Falcon to the Core to rally help and he's not back yet by the time Poe is losing his shit at Exegol(sp?), there's so much that is predictable and corny, I mean isn't that the partial established order of an SW film? It requires a leap of faith or degree of buying in to the corniness to begin with. Stormtroopers are fearsome hardened warriors that cant hit shit unless its a jawa trawler?
5) I saw it as a transfering of Life Force. Much like Palp was able to involuntarily suck the life force from Rey and Kylo. Rey was able to heal the big worm on the festival world in the tunnels, then was able to do so with Kylo/Ben, then Ben was able to do it once with his last energy to bring Rey back. Lukes transmission of his life presence to another world is almost a slight borrow on how Kylo/Rey were able to Telepathically connect/see one another and more so in this final movie how they were able to touch/take (the necklace, the melted vader helmet, the light saber, all taken physically by kylo/ben during telepathic/projection connections)
6) I could have used a little bit more of that but the implication with the "twisted science" look of the clone vats on Exegol when Kylo first goes there to see Palp for 1st time with more Snokes in them and the dark acolyte weirdos that were operating them and Palps rotted corpse like incomplete body left a lot implied. It felt very Dark Empire sourced. There were a lot of visuals in this movie that felt very Dark Empire source to me, which i freaking LOVED.
7) Agree that the whole whats Finn got to say? hang on is an overlooked completion or perhaps too much expectation of the implied continuation.
8) I saw that as part of Kylo pushing her to turn. To fight, to express hate and anger. Each time he saw/projected to her, they fought and she experienced negative results from fighting. Shes pushed further up to very end when shes about to actually kill Palp until she feels Bens presence helping sway her back. I did quite enjoy his subtle magicians bow when he pulled the saber from her in projection connection that time before killing off the Knights.
Fair critiques, counters all just my interpretation/fanboy explanation of it. I thoroughly enjoyed the chapter though!!!
JJ did a fantastic job with whatever film roll they had of Organa from previous 2 films to make her appearance in this one very tight and make sense.
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Not cool, man. I thought there would at least be one of those spoiler banners on any movie talk at least for the opening weekend. Got tickets for Sunday.
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My deepest apologies dearest Syren. I assumed a thread named for the movie that just came out and a reply to a pointed critique about it would be a safe place.
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SUPPORTING ACTRESS SPOILER
I thought she looked familiar!
I am excited to report that the actress playing Reys mom is Jodie Comer aka Villanelle from Killing Eve.
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Not to worry, Eid. Stopped myself from scrolling when I saw actual details. I was just surprised and salty. Saw it this morning. Loved it. Got choked up a few times. Didn't mind the fan service (fans decried the new directions of TLJ but also decried fan service here - can't have it both ways) and it felt strangely satisfying to see a saga that has meant so much to me conclude. The truth is, this was never going to be the movie it was supposed to be. Carrie Fisher died. This one was supposed to be hers. Given the unexpected and tragic event, I think they did well tasked with such an incredible narrative challenge.
Also, #babufrik
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SO just got back from the movie and I liked it, which is saying a lot because the more I watched TLJ the more I hated it. A few thoughts ---
1. I will give them a pass for Carrie Fisher, but tons of other narrative problems were of their own making. It all comes across to me that they really had no big picture scheme planned from the start, and that they made these movies one after the other. If TFA was a bunch of rope that TLJ tied into a Gordian's Knot, then ROS was the narrative equivalent of Alexander the Great chopping said knot in half.
2. Definitely choked up in a couple spots. Luke raising the X-Wing from the water was really special. Leia's death (and Chewie's reaction).
3. I was keeping my fingers crossed for a mass force ghost ensemble, but the voices worked.
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So, to answer the question about Palpatine coming back: he touched BRIEFLY on it in Episode 3, if i remember right, about being able to save some one from Death. I feel as if, him returning, was kind of a play off this BUT.....and there is always a BUT I feel as if this was grabbed from STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED 2 when they cloned Galen Mareck. He had all of his abilities but none of his memories except when he started to do thing and would get force visions of it all. Also, i dont know what comic series, or book or whatever, but there it explains that After Death, Palpatine could transfer himself from body to body with his LIFE FORCE. The reason why he was all deteriorated is because a NEW body can not with stand the life force for so long so, essentially, he has to have a new body, well just say, every 15 years. Hence the cloning process.
Leia being a Jedi: that was another element, other then from books and such, from THE FORCE UNLEASHED as an add on. You actually fight Galen Mareck AKA Star Killer as Leia with a Yellow Lightsaber. I never really extensively read many SW books except HEIR to the EMPIRE and the Coruscant Nights series. So this is where i remember Leia being a Jedi mostly
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Yeah in the Dark Empire comic book run, Palpatine transfers his soul to numerous clone bodies. I think they could've set this up a little bit better had they reintroduced clone troopers in TFA or TLJ.... or maybe have multiple clones of Captain Phasma who keep showing up and getting killed (perhaps as a joke if Finn keeps killing her).
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Okay.
It was a fun movie. I found myself emotional at points. It was not bad by any stretch.
But it was not good. It will not win any awards. It did not make me think. It did not give me thought provoking emotions the way TLJ did. It felt like it was fan service to those that hated TLJ and for those that liked it, well oh well.
I need more. I don't mind that Palpatine is back (maybe too easy a choice for them than something refreshing) but give me some EXPLANATION. I don't mind that he has a fleet of Star Destroyers fully crewed but EXPLAIN it. The movie was moving so fast that we never have a moment to get the explanations that are required. Sure they will probably flesh it out in comic or book but than that means that this movie is incomplete in the current form.
It is also obvious that they had no plan and because of that Kathleen Kennedy has to go. They let each director do what they want for this trilogy without having a "This is what we are starting with and this is how we want to end" because otherwise the explanation could have been hinted at or tied nicely throughout the trilogy instead of the data dump we got this movie.
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I actually really liked the current/final trilogy. TLJ could of been a little less with the stupid ass jokes like Luke tossing the Lightsaber over his shoulder and the porgs possibly turning on said lightsaber and having the blade through the eye. But other then that< i really liked it. As far as RoS, i thought it was a nice ending to the 40 fucking years of skywalker lol but of course, youre right about explanations about Palpatine and so on
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I too got quite choked up at a few parts. Chewie breaking down at news of Leia. Luke raising the XW in fulfillment of Dagobag Challenge. Driver did a good job portraying Kylo/Ben for me throughout.
Regarding the Voices. In checking the credits, it is a ton of characters besides the obvious.. Ahsoka, Qui Gon, Luminara, Kanan etc.
It satisfied the Skywalker story for me. I've already seen it now more times (4) than TFA and TLJ.
The biggest hanger for me was a family for Palpatine. Woulda been nice if is some obscure footage from the prequels that show possible family characters for less out the blue feeling of it all.
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I agree. Unless, which the whole explanation is crucial for this reason, Palpatine had transferred his Life Force into another body AFTER the 2nd Death Star and decided to go on a fuck spree lol
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Just saw it.
I agree with most. I didn't hate it, but I really did feel that each movie was just a brainstorm session and "lets roll with it" on a big budget. There didn't seem any attention to the core hero's journey mythos that powered the original. It was entertaining but it was not satisfying.
The palpatine angle seemed like something tossed up in a brainstorm session that they just made happen even though it doesnt quite feel right at all. It was disappointing and felt pretty lame to me.
I liked Kylo/Ben's return, but felt it came a little too late and could have been more of an element in the movie.
Overall i think it just felt rushed and they ran with the first half decent idea to pickup where TLJ left off. All of the movies felt a little half baked and lazy, living on the power of the world building already done and the strong characters inherited and not doing anything of their own. They just did "ok" without totally ruining the existing star wars characters/world.
Oh and Lando looked like a happy old drunk the entire movie and really out of place. Again, a case of "hey what if LANDO WAS ON THE BURNING MAN PLANET?! THAT WOULD BE SO COOL!
I did like that they took the elements from the Thrawn trilogy and Duology where luke struggled with using too much of the force and abusing it, and Rey was doing that and she teetered towards the dark as a result.
Overall... meh, but like the other two in the series, not something I'd bother watching again with any attention.
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Also i dislike the boring luke-vader twist revisited with rey-palpatine. I liked more the idea of her really being nobody and owning that and being a hero anyway. The movies lack courage and dont strike out to tell their own story. They should have let rotj be the end of the skywalker journey as it was, and done something different with the new trilogy with new characters. Oh well.
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Hop, Dark Empire was one of the early Expanded Universe materials and it included the Clone/Resurrected Emperor. It didn't feel out of the blue at all for me considering his passed as Darth Sidious and The Plagueis story. Their entire dragon was immortality through sith ways. The return of palp is no less not fitting than palp dying by being just thrown over the railing in to an exposed reactor core more or less in the first place? On a 2nd death star? I mean if we weren't 7ish when we saw that, we'd feel that same about that being a slice of cheese. I mean really..How dare I scorn Starkiller Base/3rd Death Star or Star Destroyers with Planet Killing Lasers when I eagerly lapped up the 2nd Death star in the second place? ;p
Lando diss- boooo. What did you want the cthulu planet to be? =P Lando was hanging out there because Luke was there with him chasing Oochee (?) at some point way back. Plus with how much more scoundrel he was shown to be in Solo, hanging out with the cthulus is maybe his best shot at anonymity in these times? He's known as a Rebel Alliance General as they all refer to him, so he'd have to be hiding from the FO. And him being present on the Cthulu planet lends to why he maybe didn't get the first MAY DAY the Resistance sent out in TLJ at Crait.
Also, anyone notice yet the Falcons Quad turret gunner when it comes back to Exogal? It's Wedge Antilles
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Yeah i spotted wedge! That was rad. I know dark empire, i just felt for this trilogy they did no work to prepare for palpatine return, i agree with hales words on the topic.
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Also it is fine we had two deathstars before. To just do the same shit AGAIN... the movies just did not take any chances or try to create anything new, its all rehashing the old movies with a little twist, which is disappointing.
I would have preferred for the trilogy to have bee the Thrawn trilogy, with new actors cast for Leia, Luke, Han, etc. That would have been more bad ass.
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Well all I know is that the kids I talk to seem really jazzed about the new stuff, so maybe we crotchety old Elder Millennials (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJPr3ML4M) just need to be put out to pasture or chill out.
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Shes a year late. 82 is the cut off. I tied my dads flannels around my waist and cried for kurt in elementary school. Then I drank his Tanqueray and Jack Daniels walking to Wendys in Jr High with my punk band buddies. You don't get to call me a Millenial damnit! Did you check out Jenny Slate Stage Fright? Her psychotic nature is so enchanting!
Bah. Im just saying, give in to your much cooler more easy going couch cushion fort building selves and love it. It was a fitting conclusion to the Saga! If I have to play my trump card, it gave us Pommet Warrick. Thats right, Lil Wicket.
How does everyone feel about the totality of Ben's Journey now through the 3 movies that its complete? I thought the Ben/Kylo/Ben process was well done and Driver played it great. I wasn't necessarily onboard with him in TFA, but come the conclusion in all I like it start to finish. If he survived, it wouldn't have felt nearly as fitting.
While the Emperor claimed a great deal of Ben/Kylos direction in being Snoke/using many diff voices projected to him, it's also not 100 in that Luke ultimately set Ben on the Kylo journey himself, and that Leia used the last of her essence and power to make a bid for his heart/mind.
Ben/Kylo/Ben path ultimately dictated Han, Luke, Leias demise. All sacrificing themselves to save him, ultimately his mother being the one strong enough to do so. As Luke told her she would be back in ROTJ.
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Much like Obi-Wan was the saving grace of the prequels, I think Kylo will save the sequels as the most interesting character.
I think the the prequels benefited from the fact that the overall direction of the plot was a tragedy, and that we as the audience already knew how the story was going to end before it even began. The sequels on the other hand enjoyed no such meta-narrative. I suppose they knew they needed to end the Saga with IX, and so from that point of view it makes since that TLJ was iconoclastic, the creative intent it seemed was to end the Saga by destroying every vital aspect of it. In many respects Kylo embodied the meta-narrative. But overall there were some creative decisions that were simply ill-conceived from the outset that made anything other than Kylo Ren a nuisance to the story.
I think we needed to see the restored Republic on Coruscant, and maybe seen the First Order as a fringe faction perhaps as a role reversal of the Empire vs Rebel Alliance. They could've even portrayed the First Order as "the good guys" by being enforcers who "bring order to the galaxy" at least to some extent to make us question why we are supposed to root for the Republic.
I think we needed to see exactly why Kylo was trying to finish what Vader started. Was it bringing balance to the Force? Was it restoring order to the galaxy? -- I was talking about this with my brother last night and we thought it would've been dope AF had Palpatine projected a Force ghost of Vader whenever Kylo prayed to him. This would've truly made Palpatine into the ultimate puppet-master. "It was I who appeared to Kylo Ren as Darth Vader to make him think he was fulfilling his destiny" or some such line. Not only would this have freaked the fans out (in a good way), "the big JJ Abrams reveal" that it was Palpatine all-along would've been sweeter. Instead, Palps was reduced to a deus ex machina.
There are some other things I would've liked to have seen, but overall I think IX was a sufficient ending to the Saga. Over time as I age with these films I may come to understand them differently and try to unpack the deeper story they were attempting to tell, but I doubt any of these new films will achieve the meme/gif pop culture status that Episode III has achieved.
As a closing note, has anyone felt that the score was particularly memorable? Like as soon as Duel of the Fates hit in Episode I, that song just stuck. As for the original films, the Imperial March is practically a cultural icon unto itself. Will any of the music from these sequels do the Saga proud?
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How many back from deads and planet killing lasers does it take to get a two thumbs up from you man?!
I was fine without Coruscant or more of the geopolitical. The prequels did Coruscant in every movie after having never seen or known what it was called from watching the OT alone. I didn't think we needed to see any more of it than we already saw. Granted, I think the Hosnian Prime shift felt weird at first in the immediate introduction to destruction process of it. 3-5 minutes of screen time for some Senate shit or New Republic life certainly would have helped make that area feel much better.
The specifics of Kylo/Palp. I was cool with it all. Between all the Force Ghosting and telepathic connections it would have felt a bit heavy to add in even more of that. I mean, apart from building planet killing laser star destroyers underground by the hundreds somehow but not having people to crew them, you've got to limit Ole Palps somewhere along the line! ;p
He should have just found happiness at the end of a giant robot arm. Life's allllll a matter of perspective!
Re: Score. John Williams did it all so you could say same artistic brain, but nah, Duel of Fates is pretty epic. You also just don't have the moments like that. It was possibly the best lightsaber battle of all films the more I dwell on it..
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Duel of fates is great. I am going to try to go see trs again in the next week or two and see how i feel.
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Also it is fine we had two deathstars before. To just do the same shit AGAIN... the movies just did not take any chances or try to create anything new, its all rehashing the old movies with a little twist, which is disappointing.
I would have preferred for the trilogy to have bee the Thrawn trilogy, with new actors cast for Leia, Luke, Han, etc. That would have been more bad ass.
Actually, they could do it now - not the way it was originally written, but with the new protagonists. The next movie (Episode X) could have Rey as the new jedi, trying to rebuild and learn, and encounter all of the things that Luke faced in HtoE. You could even have her encounter a hand to Emperor Palpatine, someone who was working with Palpatine behind the scenes. She could be the one who ends up impressing the noghiri, since she is a force user who is the child of a palpatine (like Leia was to Vader).
Thrawn could be the amazing tactician he was, either having survived the battle of Exogal (taking command of the forces before they were destroyed), or one of the many ships of the First Order not present (since most of the First Order ships were not commanded by Palpatine).
Poe led the Resistance after Leia died, but now all of a sudden, he has to deal with the bureaucracy of the New Republic. Imagine that tension between the hero and the politician?
We know Finn is force sensitive - maybe there is more to him, and he could have the twins, Jaina and Jacen (or other names). They could have the Dark Force fleet, everything really with just a few tweaks, and they can use the NEW cast, because they are the right age for the storyline.
If only someone at Disney-LucasFilm thought of it. The next Star Wars movie is supposedly coming out in 2022, followed by '24 and '26. Let those three movies be the Thrawn trilogy!
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I would watch it!
We should use that as a loose framework for a collaborative SL! Only use our own characters in all the new roles.
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Thrawns in New Canon via Star Wars Rebels animated series so his inclusion in a movie or live action series is almost a certain eventuality. I'd love to see Favreau get the nod to do him in a series but as far as films go, Rian Johnson is still in charge of the new trilogy last I read. Rian gave us the canon notion that the Force is wide spread out there genetically and will never be entirely smited out, in the form of the stable boy on Canto Bight in TLJ who force-calls his broom to his hand when he runs out of the quarters. He's also stated that it's going to explore entirely new characters and it's been called a reset as well so, chances are its going to explore an entirely new family branch of forcies in an unknown time, either far after ROS or far before TPM I guess..
It'd be kind of cool if he went back so that the only known Jedi Council character was Yoda at like 500 or something. But also far forward from ROS where maybe the Jedi Academy is on Tatooine and Rey and Finn have large statues inside or some shit. Force Sensitive Pilgrims had sensed their way toward Rey, leading to the eventual foundation of the New Jedi Order based there. Maybe they have a lunch room called the Skywalker Cafe inside at this point, they brew their own blue milk ;p
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I want the new series to explore more of the force than more death stars. Not abusively, not constant saber duels, etc. Something weightier and more exciting. Post empire.
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A Force-centric movie would be cool. Pre TPM or Post ROS. Either way, it'd be cool to take that whole Harry Potter School thing (never seen one lol) and make it Jedi. So you've got a Jedi Temple and there's this conflict over taboo studies and spirals in to Fallen Jedi and confrontation between Light and Dark. Thatd make an amazing stand alone flick or trilogy.
I will even let them use the name Ghosts of Pandemonium for the first episode. All I want is credit. ;p
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Guys didn't you hear? Keanu Reeves is going to play Darth Revan in the KOTOR trilogy.
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On the topic of kotor, as of 5 months ago as reported by gamesradar KotOR 3 is in full development in Bioware's hands with a tentative and rumored relase date for Q4 2022.
How accurate that is... ? But was the last thing i heard on it.
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Even though Bioware is under the EA umbrella, since Fallen Order was EA and Squadrons is EA, I would think any future SW game would be under the EA banner/prob not developed specifically by Bioware. But I suppose its possible.
Bioware is probably occupied with a new Mass Effect title/Dragon Age title right now, at least that seems to be the consensus from gamer news outlets that I check up on. I did love the gameplay of Mass Effect(s).
I always thought Old Republic was basically a KOTOR game adapted for MMO. I don't really get in to MMOs a whole lot though, despite still entertaining the idea of getting in to Squadrons..
..but I would be in to a KOTOR III.
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Squadrons sounds like Destiny with starwars skins. That will be disappointing.
Although it wouldnt be unheard of for EA to license out a starwars game to Bioware. Few contract negotiations is all it would take.
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Yeah my worry with Squadrons is that it'll turn in to more about the overhead than about flying your fighter, much like FFG X-Wing seems to be more won or lost based on your squad build than your flying.
I'm probably going to give it a whirl though whenever I get around to getting a PS5 as I need a couch game.
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Is any game different from that? Hell even in simming. It wasnt that im that good, i just had unlimited time to crunch numbers. Of course im going to win when im doing 2x the damage and have 1.5x the health. All games come down to numbers. Figure out the numbers and youre unstoppable. Skill is irrelevant.
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There's some very noticeable distinction with respects to 'fighter flying' games, Battle Star Galactica and Wings of War are both much more about flying when compared to FFG XW. WoW is pretty much only about your flying, though sometimes particular pilot skills can come in to play.
But yes I agree a lot of games boil down to time put in to build up skill points or time put in crunching numbers for the best squad build (XW).
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Speaking of you need to get them build rules done for Edge with hale so i can start crunching them. A couple of my jobs are boring. I need something to think about during that monotony.
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The rules and such are Hales corner, I'm working on finishing up the regional galaxy map. But there is progress in the hidden dev threads. I don't think we are very far off from something to work with though..
The 'main' factions are New Republic, Imperial Order, Hutt Syndicate, Trade Federation (type), Invictus Guild (closest fringe partner). They will each have a marked Stronghold world on the regional outer rim map which are the source of contracts/missions for us as players and our 'band' to interact with. While none of them are in open declared War with one another, basically I think our activities will amount to a clandestine/cold war situation between them all as we act in our own interests to grow our own networks/groups by performing their dirty work. We establish bases/garages/pole barns on the dozens of other worlds to host our assets. In story concept of course, some of these other worlds will have loyalty leanings but we can still use them, while the marked Strongholds I think will be kind of 'off limits' for player assets.
This is my current understanding/interpretation of it all anyways!
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Lol, i was just talking about specs. Im interested in how i can module out stuff.