Star Wars Sim Forum: Roleplay, Simming and Fan Fiction
THE GALACTIC ARCHIVES => SWSF Uni Archives => Retired Game Archives => SWSF: OOC Discussion => Topic started by: SWSF Hoppus on August 16, 2017, 02:26:56 PM
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UPDATED AUGUST 24, 2017
IMPORTANT:
- Maintenance on Capital Ships is now 25%, facilities 10%.
- Planets produce 300 MC income monthly.
- All planets get a "free" Garrison base (see below). No maintenance. Regenerates 1-week after hostilities end.
- Planets can only host 2 MFG-type facilities by default. Adding an HQ Garrison/Heavy Imperial Garrison or Golan increases host capcaity to 3 MFG. No planet can hose more than 3 MFG-type facilities.
- Construction times can be ignored - All MFG facilities can instead build to their capacity once every 24 hours (so you can't build 5 ships in 1 day on 1 OSD).
Each Faction:
- 18,000 MC purse to start the game
- Freebies:
* 1 Golan (no maintenance)
* 1 HQ Garrison Base (no maintenance)
* 1 OSD
* SF Plant
* GAV Factory
* Training Ground
***All free units come stocked with cheapest Common Tech unit of that type, and can be swapped/upgraded from your purse.
Free Local Defenses
(01) Garrison Base
--1600 Standard Infantry
--1 Juggernaut
--9 AT-PT
--10 Speederbikes
--12 Z95 Starfighters
--1 Skipray Blastboat
(02) Military Outposts
--600 Militia/Conscripts
--200 Standard Infantry
--5 Speederbikes
* Free Local Defenses can never be modified. They are free, free of maintenance, and will 'rebuild' a week after combat ends. They are maintained by the local government.
* Assumptions: 25% Heavy, 75% Light units
SSD -22,202 MC
--3 Prefab Garrisons -900 MC
--6,000 Stormtroopers -1,200 MC
--18,000 Infantry -2,137.5 MC
--18 AT-ST -207 MC
--57 CAVs -199.5 MC
--9 T/I Squadrons -810 MC
--3 T/A Squadrons -450 MC
--7 XG-1 Gunboats -126 MC
--21 L/SHU -525 MC
-----------------------------------
TOTAL -28,757 MC
ISD-I -2,819 MC
--1 Prefab Garrison. -300 MC
--2,425 Stormtroopers. -485 MC
--7,275 Infantry -864 MC
--12 AT-ST -138 MC
--38 CAV -133 MC
--4 T/I Squads -360 MC
--2 T/B Squads -252 MC
--5 XG-1 Gunboats. -90 MC
--15 L/SHU -375 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -5,816 MC
VSD-I -1,335 MC
--1,530 Infantry -182 MC
--510 Stormtroops -102 MC
--1 T/I Squad -90 MC
--1 T/A Squad -150 MC
--4 XG1 -72 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -1,931 MC
MC80a -1,894 MC
--1,050 Infantry -151 MC
--350 Spec Forces -79 MC
--6 T47s -27 MC
--2 Freerunner -25 MC
--3 A-Wing -396 MC
--1 X-Wing -198 MC
--18 L/SHU -450 MC
--6 Skiprays -150 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -3,370 MC
RAF -938 MC
--100 Infantry -12 MC
--1 X/W -198 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -1,148 MC
NEB -370 MC
--75 Infantry -9 MC
--1 X/W -198 MC
--3 Skiprays -75 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -652 MC
CORV -125 MC
--150 Spec Forces -34 MC
--450 Infantry -101 MC
------------------------------------
TOTAL -260 MC
Military Camp -122 MC
--600 Infantry -71 MC
--200 Stormtroopers -40 MC
--5 AT-ST -57.5 MC
-------------------------------------
TOTAL -290.5 MC
Garrison Base -275 MC
--1200 Inf -142.5 MC
--400 Storm -80 MC
--10 AT-ST -115 MC
--4 T/I -360 MC
--2 T/B -252 MC
--6 XG-1 -108 MC
-------------------------------------
TOTAL -1,332.50 MC
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Here's the New Republic's opening spend as an example:
OPENING ACCOUNTS
INITIAL BALANCE 00000
TOTAL DEPOSITS 12000
TOTAL SPEND 11983
CURRENT BALANCE 00017
LINE ITEM REPORT
FIRST REPUBLIC FLEET COST UPKEEP
(01) MC80 Home One 2473 0618
(02) Rebel Assault Frigates 2313 0470
(03) Nebulon B Frigates 1110 0279
(03) Corellian Corvettes 0375 0375
(11) Rep. Infantry Companies^ 0253
(04) Y-Wing Squadrons 0816
(05) X-Wing Squadrons 0990
(03) A-Wing Squadrons 0396
(03) B-Wing Squadrons 0792
(24) Echo Boarding Transports 0504
TOTAL 10022 1742
INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING COST UPKEEP
(07) Military Camps 0976 84
(20) Republic Infantry 0460
(15) Republic Commandos 0345
(40) T47 Speeders 0180
TOTAL 1961 84
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So now we are going to have very minimum fleets. Or at the very least minimum large ships.
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So now we are going to have very minimum fleets. Or at the very least minimum large ships.
I think its most manageable. We can pump things up if it feels too light whenever down the road?
EDIT:
If we use a lot of larger ships - for example, multiple ISDs - this also inflates the requirements across the board. If fleets can show up with 20k+ troops and support, then average ground defenses should probably be greater as well. Which just piles units ontop of more units.
So the logic, at the moment, I am following is: a player could field ~2 ISDs and have light defenses around their Empire, or 1 ISD with a stronger load out and support ships, or multiple VSDs and support ships. An ISD is a beast of course, able to nearly disable a Nebulon B Frigate in a single strike, for example, which in this game you would feel keenly with the fleets we have.
This is a bit of a divergence from my initial goal - give players 1-3 ISDs, 2-3 VSDs, 1-2 other smaller ships and focus on big ships mainly. But I think managing so many units is going to be painful, and without CONSTANT action, its going to lead to cash reserves ballooning and units being easily replaceable and losing their color.
In this version I hope to keep things a little tighter. Your ISD flagship is a beast, a precious ship that will survive multiple engagements and have a story. Not just get blown up every battle and instantly replaced. That has more appeal to me, personally. It also means I don't have to manage 200+ star fighters and aux and 20,000+ troops and GAVs in a battle.
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Works for me. Lets roll. Will be working on TGE start up facils/fleet in next few days.
I like instant production idea, most of us are probably going to be at peak activity around pay day anyways so if access to the purchased units happens immediately, then we can be putting things in motion immediately and keep the game moving. This would maybe go along well with the smaller start up scale as well. And if the instant access screws something up we're not above tweaks and rebalances
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12,000 cuts it a little close for everybody.... but if the intent is for everyone to be tightening our collective belts and operating with stretched-too-thin resources, then so be it.
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12,000 cuts it a little close for everybody.... but if the intent is for everyone to be tightening our collective belts and operating with stretched-too-thin resources, then so be it.
I'd like to keep it tighter than our last version, which saw the Nr able to field like 6 Mon Cal cruisers.
I'd be willing to increase to what - 15k? 18k?
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It really depends on how much standing defenses you want players to have starting out. Even a meager 300 credit budget per system takes a pretty big chunk out of the overall amount. That's basically enough to field a CORV and a handful of troops, so if that's the intent, cool.
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It really depends on how much standing defenses you want players to have starting out. Even a meager 300 credit budget per system takes a pretty big chunk out of the overall amount. That's basically enough to field a CORV and a handful of troops, so if that's the intent, cool.
I don't consider cap ships part of defenses in my mind - they are mobile part of a fleet. Troops, maybe local star fighters on bases, are defenses for me.
In my mind, an average world will have <10k troops. A HQ >10k. Thats what a single ISD in the fleet, or a pair of ISDs as your only fleet ships (plus ground/sf defenses at worlds) would be a solid faction line up to me. It keeps the scale of things a bit under control, esp for ground combat situations.
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Free Local Defenses
(01) Garrison Base
--1600 Standard Infantry
--1 Juggernaut
--9 AT-PT
--10 Speederbikes
--12 Z95 Starfighters
--1 Skipray Blastboat
(02) Military Outposts
--600 Militia/Conscripts
--200 Standard Infantry
--5 Speederbikes
* Starting defenses can never be modified. They are free, free of maintenance, and will 'rebuild' a week after combat ends. They are maintained by the local government.
Starting Package
- 15,000 MC
- 1 of each MFG facility
- 1 Free HQ Garrison Base, maintenance free.
Better?
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I personally think this will be easier to work with, yeah.
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15k is much better imo.
But instead of having a base unit specifically designated as maintenance free, I wouldn't mind to see something basic like maybe, can we get 1 strongshold/capitol world that gets that benefit in some effect? Declare 1 of our starting 10 as such. In event of capture, player immediately declares new stronghold world. Stronghold world gets elevated something like..
*No maintenance cost for bases/capships at a stronghold world.* Or put a hard value cap on how much free maintenance a stronghold world gets maybe if no limit is too much. To qualify, a ship would have to be at the location for the whole pay cycle in order to prevent shuffling ships around and ensure that the benefit is used predominantly for genuinely dedicated pdf ships. A base is probably not going to move.. probably?
Also just a thought, I'm finding myself pretty much wanting to just throw all production facils in 2 places. To make it so that we can't just put everything on one or two planets or even in long term limit build up in one individual place, I'd say give each world max of 6-10 slots for Prod. Facils/Bases/Plats. This would force us to not concentrate production facilities in one place because the limit in total facils is taking away from potential bases/plats as well. Slight hypotehtical extension, a stronghold world could get like +A COUPLE slots! In long term, if even expanded Planet/Economic system to include Economic Enhancing facils, this would easily fit in to that to limit. All thats required is to up generic slot count if/as/needed Facils were to become more varied and plentiful
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Quick response here b/c of the personal message. I haven't been able to read up on the changes and assess. We've been spinning up for local national election monitoring and I'm completely swamped. Tomorrow's elections and the couple days after will be insane as well. Starting this weekend, assuming elections go well, I'll try to catch up. That said, don't wait on me to do so, y'all have all the tools I used to assess changes, so I'll go with whatever the consensus is.
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<snip>
I would be open to limiting planets to 2 MFG facilities, with the presence of a HQ Garrison/Heavy Imperial Garrison or a Golan Platform adding +1 to that total (so 3 MFGs).
There are only 4 core facilities (OSD, SF Plant, Weapons Factory, Troop Training). So that means at least 2 worlds with facilities. If you have a repair dock, extra SF Plants, etc, that means 2+ worlds with facilities.
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That option sounds cool. It makes logistics and campaign strategy more interesting imo. Is 3 MFG facils the hard cap then regardless of how many bases?
Every world gets the free local defense army you'd listed above correct?
Also I feel like 15k is pretty damn tight still. Am I only one who's buying 1 additional of each prod facil? I suppose that would free up a little more fleet cash but hell, I only bought 1 Garrison Base and loaded it and the free one. And am left with less than 9k for a fleet. Which with ISDs, is 3 of them with no load out, or 2 ISDs and 1 VSDII with a good load out, or 1 ISD and 2 VSDIIs with great load outs. Pretty tight. Not opposed entirely, just discussing..
I can free up a few hundred if tone down GAV/Troop alottment on them but they are already at 6TFs for SF squads. Still rough (woof). What are others shaping up feeling?
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Also I feel like 15k is pretty damn tight still. Am I only one who's buying 1 additional of each prod facil? I suppose that would free up a little more fleet cash but hell, I only bought 1 Garrison Base and loaded it and the free one. And am left with less than 9k for a fleet. Which with ISDs, is 3 of them with no load out, or 2 ISDs and 1 VSDII with a good load out, or 1 ISD and 2 VSDIIs with great load outs. Pretty tight. Not opposed entirely, just discussing..
I can free up a few hundred if tone down GAV/Troop alottment on them but they are already at 6TFs for SF squads. Still rough (woof). What are others shaping up feeling?
Right, well, I am open to what players want to do.
My instinct is try to keep it all tight, and income tight, so that it regulates itself and units 'matter'. The same ISD rolls into battles and its got a history, a story that you can carry. In other games, with big fleets or big universes and incomes, an ISD could get smoked in each battle and you just popped out a fresh new one, the units had no character or story!
So that is my motivation. That being said, I'd be willing to increase income and purse further. From what I worked out for myself on 12k (not adding much additional defenses at start) I put together a pretty solid fleet. Assuming most worlds have a garrison or two at most, you don't need to rollin with a fleet of ISDs and VSDs. I can send in a pair of RAFs and some CORVs loaded with troopers and get the job done. The rest of the fleet on standby to defend my territory or reinforce the attack should the Imps send a massive defense force. Even if the imps send ALL of their fleet in, we're still talking about 5-6 units, <12 SF squads, and only one or two really big ships... so while the ISD can smoke some units in a turn with support, the other ships aren't gonna be full scale slaughtered in one post and have time to maneuver, withdraw, etc...
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I agree with all you state and feel that the 15k limit is very close. From scrolling up it seems the general mentioned ranges have been between 12-18k. We are in the middle of that now at 15 and I myself feel pretty constrained still, don't know about the rest of you. If others are in agreement, I'd be completely satisfied and feel comfortable at the 18k point.
My personal concern is feeling like I have some ships I can freely move around and others I can hold back to keep positioned for defensive action.
18k is my ideal final start up point
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I agree with all you state and feel that the 15k limit is very close. From scrolling up it seems the general mentioned ranges have been between 12-18k. We are in the middle of that now at 15 and I myself feel pretty constrained still, don't know about the rest of you. If others are in agreement, I'd be completely satisfied and feel comfortable at the 18k point.
My personal concern is feeling like I have some ships I can freely move around and others I can hold back to keep positioned for defensive action.
18k is my ideal final start up point
All right, we'll go to 18k. Updating.
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OP updated! Get your shit together!
Let's try to "start" official on Saturday, income collection to start on the 1st of September (and Maintenance fees!)
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Happy to hear we got bumped to 18K. I myself was also quite worried.
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Hop,
When you say this
*does a Hop voice*
***All free units come stocked with cheapest Common Tech unit of that type, and can be swapped/upgraded from your purse.
Presumably the exchange cost is only the difference and also just to be sure
Do you mean then Conscript Infantry and Z95s for everyone for our Free Golan and HQ Base?
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Hop,
When you say this
*does a Hop voice*
Presumably the exchange cost is only the difference and also just to be sure
Do you mean then Conscript Infantry and Z95s for everyone for our Free Golan and HQ Base?
The LOCAL DEFENSES cannot be modified, ever.
The FREEBIES (Golan, HQ Base, MFGs) come with cheapest shit (Conscript, I think Cloakshapes are cheapest SF, and so on). You can upgrade for the difference in price (if conscripts cost 3, your Stormtroopers cost 5, you pay 2 and have stormtroopers to start).
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So many changes, so little time. lol.
This is neither here nor there, but I found myself making 1 system a stronghold, keeping another as a less-powerful back-up, and the rest lightly fortified.
So I like the idea of free local defenses being available only to Stronghold/Capitol systems, maybe each faction gets 2?
In the event say a new player joins late in the game, or a faction gets totally obliterated, there is always the opportunity to push the reset button, come in fresh with 2 systems ready-to-go, and build yourself back up again.
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So many changes, so little time. lol.
This is neither here nor there, but I found myself making 1 system a stronghold, keeping another as a less-powerful back-up, and the rest lightly fortified.
So I like the idea of free local defenses being available only to Stronghold/Capitol systems, maybe each faction gets 2?
In the event say a new player joins late in the game, or a faction gets totally obliterated, there is always the opportunity to push the reset button, come in fresh with 2 systems ready-to-go, and build yourself back up again.
Sorry, so no free local defenses for all worlds, only two worlds? I dont quite understand specificslly what you mean
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Let me just reiterate the main goal I've had:
Lightly defended worlds, light fleets where large ships are durable, where players are coerced into combat vs each other rather than versus spawned PDF.
I already feel like we've taken a step towards what I'm trying to avoid with such robust defenses "FREE" on every world, which distorts the balance crated by paying for every unit and its maintenance...
I think a better plan is to keep it simple rather than add more rules:
- 18k
- 1 Free HQ Base (no maintenance)
- 1 of each MFG facility
Go build your empire.
The idea is not that you have every world with multiple garrisons and SF platforms plus fleets of multiple ISDs. Its that you have most worlds with 1-3k troops and a fleet with 1 ISD and smaller support ships, ranging from VSD down (or in my case, 1 big MC ship then RAFs, Nebs, Corvs, etc).
You shouldn't need an ISD's worth of ground support to conquer most surface PDFs in this game, an ISD would go up against a heavily fortified world -- assuming it gets past space.
That's what I'm after.
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Sounds good!
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The FREEBIES (Golan, HQ Base, MFGs) come with cheapest shit (Conscript, I think Cloakshapes are cheapest SF, and so on). You can upgrade for the difference in price (if conscripts cost 3, your Stormtroopers cost 5, you pay 2 and have stormtroopers to start).
Cloakshapes cost 132, TIE Ints cost 90. I stand to make decent money in that exchange. You ok with that? Just making sure before i delve too deep into finalizing start up lot.
Change 6 Cloakshapes to TIE Int squads and I make 252MC. Not that I don't want that 252 =)
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Cloakshapes cost 132, TIE Ints cost 90. I stand to make decent money in that exchange. You ok with that? Just making sure before i delve too deep into finalizing start up lot.
Change 6 Cloakshapes to TIE Int squads and I make 252MC. Not that I don't want that 252 =)
No, if you replace and it costs less, I would say you lose nothing gain nothing. It's not meant to be a money making scheme.
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Actually, go ahead. Downgrade you get diff foe purse.
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Sweeet.
Regarding SSD. Its still in specs are the normal full strength version it looks like, so was wondering with the Facil limitation to each system (max of 3) and the Length limitation on the OSD to 1km, how would one go about building an SSD to begin with if most cap ship build length I can get at one place is 3km? If SSD is being removed then doesn't matter, if being left, then kind of a gap there. Would say to solve either allow the compiling of other OSDs at other places in order to make full 8km or to up the max length each OSD provides or give SSD special exemption for build requisites if keeping.
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Howsabout you other dudes post some starting roosters (sic) so I can see where Im at and if I should tweak.
Its looking pretty minimal defense wise but should make for a cool dynamic between our fleets interacting with one another rather than constantly tackling pdfs.
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You should all notice all maintenance costs a little lower. I talked Hop in to it. All caps used to be 25%.
Now Heavy capships ie ISDs, VSDs, Venator, Mon Cals and DRD are 20%
All Lighter Caps are 15%, adding a little value to them on the back end.
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My semester JUST started last week so I will probably get around to all this stuff by the weekend hopefully!
Everything looks good though.
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I'll try to read up on everything and put together something over the weekend. I'm now deep in the moving schedule that won't have me settled in the new house until the end of October.
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Let's put a LOCK on any spec/price changes from here forward. No new tech, no changes, no price changes, etc until we've started playing and changes appear necessary (if at all).
We are still sorting out a few other things and as most of us are busy lets just take it slow and maybe write some stories up in the mean time :)
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I accept your surrender but cannot offer guarantees against nor condemnations of errant reprisals and looting. :D